Wearing a bib

[HRW]

@Brian Hamilton what would an assessors view on this be, and subsequent marks? Only asking as I can not think that anything more than a "failed to impliment the laws of the game correctly" would suffice.

Common since / age / league etc aside, as an assessor you are there to compare their game against LOTG, and pint out the good, bad and ugly. As an auditor, my job is the same; one set of standards - how have the demonstrated compliance and implimentation.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

@Brian Hamilton what would an assessors view on this be, and subsequent marks? Only asking as I can not think that anything more than a "failed to impliment the laws of the game correctly" would suffice.

Common since / age / league etc aside, as an assessor you are there to compare their game against LOTG, and pint out the good, bad and ugly. As an auditor, my job is the same; one set of standards - how have the demonstrated compliance and implimentation.

Failed to apply law. Failed to enforce competition rules. Take your pick.

I wouldn't let it get that far. I'd be supporting the referee in ensuring the offending team found a new kit before kick off. I'd be helping them find the relevant part of the competition rules where it will point out the relevant fine for wearing a black kit. I'd be finding the part where it states which team changes kit if there's a problem with a kit clash. I'd be making life very difficult for offending club indeed but then again I am Vice President of the local RA and Secretary of the District FA with a hotline to Football Development, Referee Development and the Chairman of the County Referee's Committee. I'm just a lowly assessor... how could I possibly influence anything?

I should point out I am very much a referee's assessor and support my referees when they do the job right. If they demonstrate a lack of application, for example by not keeping up to correspondence, etc. then I can't help them to help themselves.

 

[GraemeS]

I had a match where I was being assessed and both goalkeepers turned up in the same colour kit - one team's alternative clashed with the other team's outfield kit and the other keeper only had a spare black top! I discussed it with the Assessor and he seemed content not to mark me down for going ahead given that I had noticed the problem and discussed it with the teams. He certainly wasn't suggesting I abandon the match because of itit.

 

[SM]

What do the laws of the game say about keepers and kit clashes @GraemeS?

 

[GraemeS]

What do the laws of the game say about keepers and kit clashes @GraemeS?

Oh no, I've walked into a test!

I'm honestly not 100% sure - I tend to apply "law 18" above all else whenever there's a potential colour clash at the level I work at, as everyone knows a colour clash when they see it and I know what will cause me trouble in a match and what won't. The whole point of home/away kits is because players have to be distinct from each other and the referees. 99.9% of the time, there's very little danger of the two keepers being close enough to cause any risk of confusion, but if it did happen, there would be chaos...

In the case, the choice was between both keepers wearing purple or one of them wearing black. The third option was absolutely off the table as the home team's spare top was the same colour as the away team's outfield kit (green), so I dismissed that immediately - same for asking either keeper to wear a training top as I didn't want the safety risk of zips on the pitch.

As I didn't have NAR's wearing black, I asked the away keeper to switch to black as it seemed the most logical option and this seemed to go down well with the assessor. Looking back on it, I suspect letting anyone else wear black is technically wrong though?

 

[RegalRef]

I should point out I am very much a referee's assessor and support my referees when they do the job right. If they demonstrate a lack of application, for example by not keeping up to correspondence, etc. then I can't help them to help themselves.

This.

Far too many assessors think their job is purely to give positives or negatives. Far too many focus only on the negatives.

The better ones I hear start with a phrase similar to 'I'm here to help you develop as a referee' and stick to it.

By all means tell me where I'm going wrong, but what I should be doing to put it right.

I absolutely agree with your closing sentence @Brian Hamilton; support any referee who is keen, eager, wants to develop and shows enthusiasm. Any that struggles to meet the minimum standard of effort, whether that be on the pitch or the admin side should not have these resources wasted on them.

 

[SM]

Oh no, I've walked into a test!

I'm honestly not 100% sure - I tend to apply "law 18" above all else whenever there's a potential colour clash at the level I work at, as everyone knows a colour clash when they see it and I know what will cause me trouble in a match and what won't. The whole point of home/away kits is because players have to be distinct from each other and the referees. 99.9% of the time, there's very little danger of the two keepers being close enough to cause any risk of confusion, but if it did happen, there would be chaos...

In the case, the choice was between both keepers wearing purple or one of them wearing black. The third option was absolutely off the table as the home team's spare top was the same colour as the away team's outfield kit (green), so I dismissed that immediately - same for asking either keeper to wear a training top as I didn't want the safety risk of zips on the pitch.

As I didn't have NAR's wearing black, I asked the away keeper to switch to black as it seemed the most logical option and this seemed to go down well with the assessor. Looking back on it, I suspect letting anyone else wear black is technically wrong though?

lol while I appreciate your long response, have a read of the lotg!!

It's just one paragraph (maybe a sentence in fact) which solves the issue you had today and would have meant no need for a black top.

Spoiler

page 69 on the e-version

 

[GraemeS]

lol while I appreciate your long response, have a read of the lotg!!

It's just one paragraph (maybe a sentence in fact) which solves the issue you had today and would have meant no need for a black top.

That was basically train of thought, I was trying to do it off the top of my head. Having looked up the LOTG, I'm actually still not 100%! To quote:

Each goalkeeper must wear colours that distinguish him from the other players, the referee and the assistant referee

Does "other players" include the other GK? I would instinctively have thought so, but you've hinted that the black top was unnecessary, which suggests not?

 

[SM]

It's on page 69 on the e-version (in the interpretation section).

If the jerseys of the two goalkeepers are the same colour and neither has another jersey to change into, the referee allows play to begin

 

[ref craig]

When I go with an assessor during midweek like we always speak what he did good and what development can we give if any.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

This.

Far too many assessors think their job is purely to give positives or negatives. Far too many focus only on the negatives.

The better ones I hear start with a phrase similar to 'I'm here to help you develop as a referee' and stick to it.

By all means tell me where I'm going wrong, but what I should be doing to put it right.

I absolutely agree with your closing sentence @Brian Hamilton; support any referee who is keen, eager, wants to develop and shows enthusiasm. Any that struggles to meet the minimum standard of effort, whether that be on the pitch or the admin side should not have these resources wasted on them.

The remit of assessors is to highlight a minimum number of good things, a maximum number of bad things and provide help on how to stop the bad things being bad. A small number (and I include my 2008-2010 self in this) are "gotcha" merchants but better development/education for them, the passage of time and increased expectations set by The FA is reducing their numbers. For example a number of them quit when they were told about the requirement to be online. A few more went when the reports changed a few seasons ago. I expect an even larger number to quit when they are asked to use MOAS for Supply from next season. Means I'll be even busier :O

 

[YorkshireReferee]

The remit of assessors is to highlight a minimum number of good things, a maximum number of bad things and provide help on how to stop the bad things being bad. A small number (and I include my 2008-2010 self in this) are "gotcha" merchants but better development/education for them, the passage of time and increased expectations set by The FA is reducing their numbers. For example a number of them quit when they were told about the requirement to be online. A few more went when the reports changed a few seasons ago. I expect an even larger number to quit when they are asked to use MOAS for Supply from next season. Means I'll be even busier :O

An ex-assessor was at my supply game on Saturday. An elderly gentlemen who's reasons for quitting was having to type up reports and also that he wasn't happy been told that his words did not match his mark.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

An ex-assessor was at my supply game on Saturday. An elderly gentlemen who's reasons for quitting was having to type up reports and also that he wasn't happy been told that his words did not match his mark.

Ah yes, I forgot that. The words matching the marks thing has been a stumbling block for a few people and is the most frequent reason for reports being moderated. Competencies have been in place for about 5 years now. They are intended to drive the behaviours demonstrated by the most successful of referees in the pyramid and hence make refereeing more consistent.

 

[santa sangria]

This (teams not allowed to wear black) is an association an league-specific thing.
In my neck of the woods a lot of teams wear black. After the first year, nearly all refs carry at least three shirts. I did a tournament at the weekend and used three of them (yellow, blue and red for the record).

I know that this (teams not allowed to wear black) might be what many of you are used to, but the comments here seem quite funny to me
As all I am used to is not wearing black - I rarely get the chance to use the night navy! boo hoo

 

[YorkshireReferee]

Ah yes, I forgot that. The words matching the marks thing has been a stumbling block for a few people and is the most frequent reason for reports being moderated. Competencies have been in place for about 5 years now. They are intended to drive the behaviours demonstrated by the most successful of referees in the pyramid and hence make refereeing more consistent.

My first ever assessment I had to query the assessor via e-mail on his use of 'excessive force' in regards to a tackle in which I gave the offender a firm talking to (not even a caution). This wasn't mentioned in the post-match so I was a bit shocked but after e-mailing him he informed me that he agreed with the action I took, a talking to. I believe this particular assessor has gone off and gone onto become an assessor coordinator for quite a large area.

 

[GraemeS]

This (teams not allowed to wear black) is an association an league-specific thing.
In my neck of the woods a lot of teams wear black. After the first year, nearly all refs carry at least three shirts. I did a tournament at the weekend and used three of them (yellow, blue and red for the record).

I know that this (teams not allowed to wear black) might be what many of you are used to, but the comments here seem quite funny to me
As all I am used to is not wearing black - I rarely get the chance to use the night navy! boo hoo

I've always been told that in England, until you get to a professional level, black is reserved for the officials. As you allude to, this means that until you're earning the big bucks, you only need one colour kit - at ~£50 a pop for a shirt alone, I'd be terrified if I was starting out and was told I needed 3 or 4 full kits!

 

[DanCohen17]

My first ever assessment I had to query the assessor via e-mail on his use of 'excessive force' in regards to a tackle in which I gave the offender a firm talking to (not even a caution). This wasn't mentioned in the post-match so I was a bit shocked but after e-mailing him he informed me that he agreed with the action I took, a talking to. I believe this particular assessor has gone off and gone onto become an assessor coordinator for quite a large area.

Unfortunately that last sentence is something I too have personal experience of! A referee who never got passed L7, hardly referees at all actually due to ill health, is now Supply League assessor secretary. His assessments are utterly woeful and the 3 times he assessed me during my time as a 4, I appealed (and won!) 1 and the other 2 were moderated and marks were changed. Low and behold, 6 months later, he was appointed. That confirmed my decision to resign as a L4, and eventually led to my retirement and non-registration for this current season (2015/16)

 

[jofusref]

I've always been told that in England, until you get to a professional level, black is reserved for the officials. As you allude to, this means that until you're earning the big bucks, you only need one colour kit - at ~£50 a pop for a shirt alone, I'd be terrified if I was starting out and was told I needed 3 or 4 full kits!

im most cases teams give you money after games you could use that to buy kit and clothing like we do

 

[GraemeS]

im most cases teams give you money after games you could use that to buy kit and clothing like we do

Indeed.

And when you're starting out and not sure if refereeing's going to be something you're really going to commit too, £50 for a shirt, same again for boots and the same again for a 3rd time for shorts, socks, whistles, watches, cards etc is a big initial expenditure. Add on the course cost (£60?) and you're easily £200 (i.e. ~7 matches) not counting transport in the hole before you've walked onto the pitch for the first time. In fact, it seems I may have been a bit conservative - here's everything you need EXCEPT boots and the course for £170 http://www.referee-equipment.co.uk/Catalogue/New-Refs/Starter-Packs/Nike-Ultimate-Starter-Bundle

Having to have 3 or 4 coloured shirts would easily put you above £300 in the UK, and I don't know if telling new referees they need to do 10-11 matches to break even is the best way to encourage people to take up refereeing! At least limiting you to needing a single shirt colour is a good idea I think.

 

[YorkshireReferee]

Indeed.

And when you're starting out and not sure if refereeing's going to be something you're really going to commit too, £50 for a shirt, same again for boots and the same again for a 3rd time for shorts, socks, whistles, watches, cards etc is a big initial expenditure. Add on the course cost (£60?) and you're easily £200 (i.e. ~7 matches) not counting transport in the hole before you've walked onto the pitch for the first time. In fact, it seems I may have been a bit conservative - here's everything you need EXCEPT boots and the course for £170 http://www.referee-equipment.co.uk/Catalogue/New-Refs/Starter-Packs/Nike-Ultimate-Starter-Bundle

Having to have 3 or 4 coloured shirts would easily put you above £300 in the UK, and I don't know if telling new referees they need to do 10-11 matches to break even is the best way to encourage people to take up refereeing! At least limiting you to needing a single shirt colour is a good idea I think.

There's also the fact it costs around £120(?) to take part in the course.