Verbal distractions

[BES]

Hi guys

Had a game today where I awarded a penalty. As the penalty taker runs up to take the pen the defensive captain screams and shouts trying to put off the attacker.

Scores his pen, I allow goal, and call the captain over to book him for putting off an opponent. (But did he put them off as they still scored??)

2 questions arise - I'm putting through the booking as unsporting behaviour but then what code? Unspecified? Nothing else fits?

Secondly when I was booking him I asked for his name and he just said you already know it ref. I do as I spoke to him during the week when he confirmed the fixture and we introduced ourselves before the game. He still refused to confirm his name as he obviously had the hump. Do I put through the booking as no name given or use his name as I know it from previous conversations?

Any advice please?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Report it as an extraordinary incident. Do not use the name previously provided but refer to it in your report. He's inconvenienced you, now you inconvenience him and his club

 

[JamesL]

1) Correct Caution. The offence was still committed whether he was successful or not.
2) As you already knew his name I think I personally would have accepted that. For me, if i had no team sheet with names, I'd raise the yellow card to indicate the caution. Following the game I would be speaking to the manager to confirm the name. If he refuses then it goes in as no name and extraordinary report. If he obliges the name goes with the caution along with an extra ordinary report.
I think with named team sheets you can get away with just their number as you already have all the names listed v number although strictly speaking this is incorrect as per caution procedure and you should always at least confirm the name.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I think with named team sheets you can get away with just their number as you already have all the names listed v number although strictly speaking this is incorrect as per caution procedure and you should always at least confirm the name.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Do not rely on teamsheets. The procedure is stop the game, ask the player for his name, record it, warn him regarding his future conduct and show the yellow card. If he doesn't give it, then report the misconduct, if no one else provides it.

The teamsheet could contain an incorrect name, either by error or design. There is no guarantee that the names and numbers on the sheet match.

 

[JamesL]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Do not rely on teamsheets. The procedure is stop the game, ask the player for his name, record it, warn him regarding his future conduct and show the yellow card. If he doesn't give it, then report the misconduct, if no one else provides it.

The teamsheet could contain an incorrect name, either by error or design. There is no guarantee that the names and numbers on the sheet match.

I did say strictly speaking incorrect. But if you have their name on the sheet and they are refusing to give it to you its an option is it not?

My two main leagues require clubs to correctly assign player names to numbers on the sheet so I tend to write that out on my match card - saves writing time on field but I think this also deters players from not giving their name as you've already have it on official document back in the changing room.
Thats not to say that the procedure shouldnt be followed and it be reportd afterwards but if they are refusing to give their name what choice do you have mid-game whilst retaining match control?

 

[ref craig]

@Brian Hamilton

You can be sent off as well if you fail to give name if not mistaken

 

[Nalbi]

@Brian Hamilton

You can be sent off as well if you fail to give name if not mistaken

As a 2nd caution I would imagine, the first caution is for what infringement they've committed and the 2nd you can have it down as delaying restart. I was advised so by an observer as the player kept walking away from me as I intended to caution them. Simple refused to come to where I am, even though I kept moving towards them or to a middle ground he kept going back to his half!!!

 

[GraemeS]

As a 2nd caution I would imagine, the first caution is for what infringement they've committed and the 2nd you can have it down as delaying restart. I was advised so by an observer as the player kept walking away from me as I intended to caution them. Simple refused to come to where I am, even though I kept moving towards them or to a middle ground he kept going back to his half!!!

Delaying the restart doesn't sound right, surely the issue there is that he's dissenting your decision and undermining you by refusing to come towards you and/or give his name?

If this becomes an issue on the pitch, I'd usually consider this as a situation where captains can be useful to you. Call the captain over and explain to him that you're trying to caution the player for x, he's refusing to come over and if he doesn't get over here now, it'll be two yellows in one and his team will be a man down. That usually does the trick.

 

[Nalbi]

Delaying the restart doesn't sound right, surely the issue there is that he's dissenting your decision and undermining you by refusing to come towards you and/or give his name?

If this becomes an issue on the pitch, I'd usually consider this as a situation where captains can be useful to you. Call the captain over and explain to him that you're trying to caution the player for x, he's refusing to come over and if he doesn't get over here now, it'll be two yellows in one and his team will be a man down. That usually does the trick.

Unfortunately in this particular incident it was the captain!! But yes dissent sounds like also an appropriate reason as well.

Delaying restart in this case would be as you (as per procedures) need to explain why are you giving him the caution for and warn him against future behaviour and finally taking his name. Him not coming over to a reasonable distance delays the restart as you can't restart the game till you have cautioned the palyer. That being said I believe you can also have it as dissent by action!

 

[ref craig]

If they don't come over just go itv him and show him the card

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I did say strictly speaking incorrect. But if you have their name on the sheet and they are refusing to give it to you its an option is it not?

My two main leagues require clubs to correctly assign player names to numbers on the sheet so I tend to write that out on my match card - saves writing time on field but I think this also deters players from not giving their name as you've already have it on official document back in the changing room.
Thats not to say that the procedure shouldnt be followed and it be reportd afterwards but if they are refusing to give their name what choice do you have mid-game whilst retaining match control?

@Brian Hamilton

You can be sent off as well if you fail to give name if not mistaken

The choice is to speak to the player, speak to the captain, speak to the coach. Tell the coach we're not restarting until you get his name. If he confirms it matches the teamsheet, you caution for the original offence, you bring the captain in and you read the riot act. If he farts, give him a second caution and bin him.

 

[A Freethinker]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Do not rely on teamsheets. The procedure is stop the game, ask the player for his name, record it, warn him regarding his future conduct and show the yellow card. If he doesn't give it, then report the misconduct, if no one else provides it.

The teamsheet could contain an incorrect name, either by error or design. There is no guarantee that the names and numbers on the sheet match.

@Brian Hamilton probably the only time I would disagree with you, we were told if the card states "names and numbers of players must correspond" then it is ok to take a number. Referees are not responsible for the administration of a team I book number 4 whoever's name is beside number 4 is reported. I had an instance where I dismissed a player the team told me it was mistaken identity I said no I booked number 2 xx was named beside number 2.

At the hearing they claimed I was wrong disciplinary committee stated due to the card saying the players needed to correspond it wasn't the responsibility of the referee to know every player or check ids so it was the duty of the responsible officer signing the team sheet to ensure players wore the right shirts. Guy got 3 match suspension. I would suggest it is down to the individual leagues and how they work it?

 

[Nalbi]

@Brian Hamilton probably the only time I would disagree with you, we were told if the card states "names and numbers of players must correspond" then it is ok to take a number. Referees are not responsible for the administration of a team

That's what we've been told on our league as well and I always remind coaches before the match starts that it is their responsibility to ensure that the numbers and names tally. Also we are required to send in the signed match sheets to the league admin so they can a record and check the eligibility of players fielded.