A&H

Southampton v Liverpool

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PinnerPaul

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Klopp moaning - yes we all know why, not seen the match, anyone think they should have had 1/2 pens?

As for the moan about them getting less penalties than everyone else - obviously the PGMOL referees sit down and work out who is 'owed' a penalty or two each week:rolleyes:
 
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Seen the Mane one. Seen them given. Felt it probably should have been.
 
I thought they were going to give the Mane one. Looked more than enough to be pen, but they are one of those judgement calls that can go either way, certainly wasn’t a stonewall.
 
Justylove said:
I thought they were going to give the Mane one. Looked more than enough to be pen, but they are one of those judgement calls that can go either way, certainly wasn’t a stonewall.
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I agree - unless you're a Liverpool fan of course, which I believe Klopp is. :D
 
Not having the Mane one, think he kicks Walker Peters as much as WP catches him.

It seems people want a penalty now for almost any contact in the penalty area.
 
spuddy1878 said:
Not having the Mane one, think he kicks Walker Peters as much as WP catches him.

It seems people want a penalty now for almost any contact in the penalty area.
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Not for me.. Walker Peters attempts to beat Mane to the ball, Mane gets past him, with walker Peter making a careless challenge. Upper body into the back of Mane and saw on Twitter a very good close up which shows a trip as well.. Its poor defending. Not a clear and obvious error but a definite penalty on post mortem.
 
See if you can find the Jamie Carragher clip from twitter maybe from SKY MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL account and he nails it for me.
 
Justylove said:
I thought they were going to give the Mane one. Looked more than enough to be pen, but they are one of those judgement calls that can go either way, certainly wasn’t a stonewall.
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I think it's one of the unfortunate consequences of the "Clear and Obvious" criteria. If you're asking me to make a yes/no penalty decision, I'm going penalty all day on that. It's probably just (and I mean just) short of the required threshold to be given as C&O wrong though, but I can absolutely see why it's galling for Klopp when put next to the Pogba penalty from earlier in the same game week. In that case, the slightest of contacts is enough that the on-field penalty call stands, in this case a clear contact has just enough doubt about whether it was enough to knock him over, so a no-penalty call stands. But the latter is clearly much more forceful, so it feels very inconsistent - which is what VAR was supposed to reduce.

Re the handball shout I have to agree with Dale Johnson - that's a C&O penalty all day in the first few months of the season, it's probably an "on field decision stands" situation under the "clarified" laws. Whether it's right to change the definition of handball mid-season or not is a different question.

I'd also throw in two other incidents since we're already discussing this match. A late tackle from Walcott on Milner - I thought red live on this to be honest, although maybe he's on the ground early enough for it to only be a yellow. On field decision was no foul. (The tweet is a little harsher on it that I would be!)
https://twitter.com/x/status/1346218735804305408

And I can't find a clip of the other one I was thinking of, but Mane is clearly thrown to the ground on the border of the penalty area with nothing given. Notable because his reaction to the poor decision is to basically get up and kick the player who had won the ball by fouling him - which he is (in isolation) correctly booked for. I know we all like to say that it's not fair of players to blame referees for "getting them booked", but I do think that assumes a basic level of competent decision making that was lacking in this moment.
 
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Majority here think the Mane incident was a pen. Let's say so does the match assessor. Accepting it was not clearly and obviously wrong, does that count as a missed KMI? If not, would it have before VAR?
 
I didn’t and don’t think the Mane incident is a penalty but I haven’t seen the angle that @JamesL mentions
 
I still can’t see it as a pen. For me, Mane contacts KWP. However I am aware we then get into the conversation of well KWP is in the way etc
 
Degnann said:
I still can’t see it as a pen. For me, Mane contacts KWP. However I am aware we then get into the conversation of well KWP is in the way etc
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Does this help? If someone sticks his legs between your legs when you are running, contact is imminent. That is the definition of trip. But we see things differently :)

Screenshot_20210107-011633__01.jpg
 
Degnann said:
I still can’t see it as a pen. For me, Mane contacts KWP. However I am aware we then get into the conversation of well KWP is in the way etc
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That's not how I see it, I see it as an attempt at shoulder to shoulder contact whilst running together, the ball is in playing distance so I think it is fair to challenge in this manner.
My problem with it, and why I view it as a penalty is he is a fraction late, as Mane is quicker than him which pushes it into a careless challenge for me. It doesn't end up being a fair coming together, the contact is more in the back and as One shows above his legs then end up between Mane's causing a trip.
Very much like my observation on the Pogba incident, just as an upper body challnege, Its not enough. But when you throw it all together including the trip, it just has to be a penalty.
 
Didn't think it was a penalty in real time - in my view Mane didn't go down in what I would consider to be a natural way, which made it look like a dive in real time. Having seen quite a few angles since, I would have understood it being given, but not sure if it strays into the clear and obvious territory for VAR to intervene.

On a slight tangent, I'm sick of Klopp blaming the officials every time Liverpool drop points. He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last, but it's becoming really tiresome.
 
There wasn't much of an appeal. Aside from handballs EPL VAR seems to be taking that into consideration.
 
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