A&H

Scott Arfield Red Card

Superhuman568 said:
That's a fair point, though i'd argue he's spent 10 seconds rolling about and as soon as the referee has intervened he's became the hard man that tries to square up to everyone, i understand the logic of not giving the caution but i believe it could fall into unsporting behaviour :)
I do agree that cautioning him would have probably escalated the situation
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a good example of knowing the LOTG but not knowing when or when not to apply them
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
a good example of knowing the LOTG but not knowing when or when not to apply them
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i'm not saying i would necessarily caution the player, i'm just pointing to his behaviour being unsporting in nature and wondering if anyone else has a different opinion, apologies for not making that clear
 
Ciley Myrus said:
a good example of knowing the LOTG but not knowing when or when not to apply them
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touching slightly off topic for anyone who might wish a minor development point, which is relevant to public park football, the guys who do the squaring up, are not the hard men. They are the ones who like to feel they need to be involved to prove a point, or to provoke conflict.
If say that gk squares up to an opponent , its the gk who will go down again claiming he was hit.
The hard men in the teams don't square up, they actually carry out the act of brutality/violence and ask questions second
 
Superhuman568 said:
i'm not saying i would necessarily caution the player, i'm just pointing to his behaviour being unsporting in nature and wondering if anyone else has a different opinion, apologies for not making that clear
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the ref also used the Hearts captain very well here too, and basically gave him free range to push folk, from both teams, away from the scene of the crime. Again, I hope nobody would go down the route of taking action against him.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
the ref also used the Hearts captain very well here too, and basically gave him free range to push folk, from both teams, away from the scene of the crime. Again, I hope nobody would go down the route of taking action against him.
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Madden did show great management in this situation, i did notice that the keeper did as you said above,look for confrontation and claim violence against him (Halliday being the accused) the referee acknowledged the incident and proceeded to tell Halliday to just move away
 
Ciley Myrus said:
touching slightly off topic for anyone who might wish a minor development point, which is relevant to public park football, the guys who do the squaring up, are not the hard men. They are the ones who like to feel they need to be involved to prove a point, or to provoke conflict.
If say that gk squares up to an opponent , its the gk who will go down again claiming he was hit.
The hard men in the teams don't square up, they actually carry out the act of brutality/violence and ask questions second
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I thought I was the only one who replies to my own posts!
 
Superhuman568 said:
That's a fair point, though i'd argue he's spent 10 seconds rolling about and as soon as the referee has intervened he's became the hard man that tries to square up to everyone, i understand the logic of not giving the caution but i believe it could fall into unsporting behaviour :)
I do agree that cautioning him would have probably escalated the situation
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Car crash refereeing that idea..... You'd definitely hear that famous refereeing anthem......... 'You don't know what you're doing'!!! :poop::poop::poop:
 
Superhuman568 said:
Hence why i said above that cautioning the player isn't what i'd do, i was just pointing out the behaviour of the keeper and asking opinions on said behaviour, i didn't make myself clear enough
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on that, when its all died down, nothing wrong with saying to gk, esp as the restart is in the 6 yard box anyway, "look, I saw it, I dealt with it, we don't need your theatrics"

you kinda now have free licence to take action if he does something similar again
 
Big Cat said:
My understanding at grass roots, is that we can't use the red card in this way to help quickly diffuse a situation. The clip shows the effectiveness of this, as well as the referee's all round exceptional handling of the drama
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There's nothing stopping you from doing this at the local park on a Sunday - the observer handbook literally advocates it:

"Issuing of disciplinary action to be in line with approved procedure: name, reason for caution / dismissal then card, unless the early issuing of a red card is able to prevent a situation escalating."
 
JH said:
There's nothing stopping you from doing this at the local park on a Sunday - the observer handbook literally advocates it:

"Issuing of disciplinary action to be in line with approved procedure: name, reason for caution / dismissal then card, unless the early issuing of a red card is able to prevent a situation escalating."
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I don't have that handbook to refer to but, I would hope somewhere it makes reference not just to a red but also to a yellow, the best example I can think of is an act of simulation, countless times potential problems are killed stone dead when defender first hears the whistle, turns to you, then see's the card out and its clear your going for the striker. I would certainly be advocating use of a quick yellow in certain situations too, so I hope its not set in stone that a quick yellow will be frowned upon and only an occasional quick red can be applauded.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
and here is the actual issue. Nothing in the LOTG requires the referee do as told here. So, if there is an issue at all, its within the leagues and their admin and their teams!!
I was basically told years ago to stop, flashing cards, I said why, and the reply was "because we are telling you not too".
which was not then, or now, a good enough answer for me sorry.
10 punches someone, 10 is off, Who 10 is, is not my concern.
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When I started refereeing I was doing that, I was informed that it was not the correct procedure and eventually I had the CFA contacting me saying a team rang them saying I put the wrong name in for a dismissal, can they change it. In my opinion, if the manager can't be bothered writing the numbers down, it's not my fault, I should be able to trust the team sheet. Writing numbers is so much smoother and cleaner.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I don't have that handbook to refer to but, I would hope somewhere it makes reference not just to a red but also to a yellow, the best example I can think of is an act of simulation, countless times potential problems are killed stone dead when defender first hears the whistle, turns to you, then see's the card out and its clear your going for the striker. I would certainly be advocating use of a quick yellow in certain situations too, so I hope its not set in stone that a quick yellow will be frowned upon and only an occasional quick red can be applauded.
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Only mentions red I'm afraid.
 
JH said:
When I started refereeing I was doing that, I was informed that it was not the correct procedure and eventually I had the CFA contacting me saying a team rang them saying I put the wrong name in for a dismissal, can they change it. In my opinion, if the manager can't be bothered writing the numbers down, it's not my fault, I should be able to trust the team sheet. Writing numbers is so much smoother and cleaner.
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100% this.
 
Disgraceful 'challenge'. I look forward to the day football finally decides that mass confrontations aren't tolerated.
 
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Wow! Great dialogue and thanks for posting the full video, What a referee! And what a goalkeeper! I like the fact that he stepped in so quickly, the red was shownd no more than 5 plus seconds after dumb challenge, and he shielded the player that was going to take the heat for this and then worked on the keeper next. Brilliant and I bet he felt very good about the way he handled that situation which could have easily escalated to much worse.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
also note the lack of AR coming on, he knows he aint needed, the ref has this.
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I don't quite agree with this. As the leading AR you need to get close quickly, not because you don't trust the referee but because you can't trust players in a mass con. In case if the ref needs help you can't be that far away. Also if the the ref is in the thick of it, you need to be closer for any other actions out of his view.

In this case the camera doesn't actually show where the AR is.
 
one said:
I don't quite agree with this. As the leading AR you need to get close quickly, not because you don't trust the referee but because you can't trust players in a mass con. In case if the ref needs help you can't be that far away. Also if the the ref is in the thick of it, you need to be closer for any other actions out of his view.

In this case the camera doesn't actually show where the AR is.
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There is nothing an AR could have added to this, ref has handled it superbly. Sure, on occasions it might be advisable for the AR to steam in, but, this was one case where ref did not need assistance and indeed having the AR close might have made things worse.
I would not want my AR on in this incident and this ref does not either
 
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