The Ref Stop

RC in a friendly

Jack M said:
RC. Deliberate action. His own fault et cetera
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... and so the afternoon, for 20+ blokes, is now ruined.

Down to 10 men, with no keeper, the game becomes a pointless procession. Reds win 14 - 0, but not before you've played those 2 minutes of added time ('cos that's the laws, despite everyone asking you to blow up early.) The players pay their £10 subs, you take your £30 match fee. White no. 3 can't be @rsed to turn up next week (start of the season), by November they still haven't won a game. Over a few pints at Christmas the stallwarts of the team decide to pack it in, and withdraw from the league. A few of the lads join new clubs, most don't ...

Ok, so a little poetic licence, but a possible scenario.

I appreciate that we are there to apply & uphold the laws as they are written, but we are there to facilitate a bunch of blokes playing football. (At my level) we are the only ones being paid, everyone else is paying
 
The Ref Stop
Yes, just wrong not to send off AND submit the report so the player is duly suspended..
 
josh91 said:
For clarity, I'm fully aware the laws don't permit a sub for an RC'd player! ;)

The argument made to me was that it's a training game for all, most games will be 11v11 throughout during the season so it's beneficial for all if the teams played the remainder as close to "normal" as possible.

The reason I'm asking for opinions is if it happened again, not sure what I'd do.

I guess a good question is - if it happened to you and both managers want 11v11 in a friendly, would you say no and insist on 11v10?
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Yep, and the lesson that player should have learned was that Violent Conduct won't be tolerated, will always result in a red card regardless, reinforced by the appropriate fine and ban by your CFA.

Unfortunately that lesson has been somewhat lost because you allowed yourself to be coerced into making a "popular" decision rather than the correct one. An important learning point for you as a new referee should be that the LOTG apply regardless of the status of the match and it's your job to enforce them.

If you are honestly not sure what you would do in an identical circumstance, even after admitting to yourself you were utterly incorrect in law, then maybe the whistle isn't for you?
 
RefJef said:
... and so the afternoon, for 20+ blokes, is now ruined.

Down to 10 men, with no keeper, the game becomes a pointless procession. Reds win 14 - 0, but not before you've played those 2 minutes of added time ('cos that's the laws, despite everyone asking you to blow up early.) The players pay their £10 subs, you take your £30 match fee. White no. 3 can't be @rsed to turn up next week (start of the season), by November they still haven't won a game. Over a few pints at Christmas the stallwarts of the team decide to pack it in, and withdraw from the league. A few of the lads join new clubs, most don't ...

Ok, so a little poetic licence, but a possible scenario.

I appreciate that we are there to apply & uphold the laws as they are written, but we are there to facilitate a bunch of blokes playing football. (At my level) we are the only ones being paid, everyone else is paying
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GKs fault. Not mine. I have done my job on the day - I move on
 
Padfoot said:
If you are honestly not sure what you would do in an identical circumstance, even after admitting to yourself you were utterly incorrect in law, then maybe the whistle isn't for you?
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OP - please, please, please ignore that comment. In your first game, you encountered a difficult situation, dealt with it at the time as you saw fit, reflected upon it and then sought advice from more experience colleagues. At every step you have tried to do your best and acted in good faith - the whistle certainly is for you.
 
RefJef said:
OP - please, please, please ignore that comment. In your first game, you encountered a difficult situation, dealt with it at the time as you saw fit, reflected upon it and then sought advice from more experience colleagues. At every step you have tried to do your best and acted in good faith - the whistle certainly is for you.
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And after reflecting upon it, and seeking advice, the OP admits that they don't what they would do in an identical situation......despite knowing they were incorrect.
 
Christ alive! No wonder people don't stick around. @Padfoot can I ask why you feel the need to belittle every single new referee that comes on here? thankfully I live no where hear you as to be honest I'd hate to see you at one of my games.
 
I can only think he comparing it to a new driver who does not understand say, the one way street sign, and then is saying,should he see the one way street sign again, he still aint sure if if means he can go down that road, so maybe driving aint that persons thing

Although most of refereeing is opinion rather than fact i guess
 
Ross said:
Christ alive! No wonder people don't stick around. @Padfoot can I ask why you feel the need to belittle every single new referee that comes on here? thankfully I live no where hear you as to be honest I'd hate to see you at one of my games.
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I'd be a lot more understanding if the OP hadn't realised he was in the wrong, came on here to seek others opinions, all of which told him he was wrong, but then goes on to say that they don't know what they would do if it happened again.

Part of being a referee is accepting that we make mistakes, learning from them and improving our games to try and not repeat them......for a new referee to make such a basic major error, but then be anything other than determined not to repeat it is, quite frankly, staggering.
And if part of that uncertainty is an unwillingness to make an unpopular decision then absolutely they should consider whether refereeing is the right thing for them, being fearful to make a tough decision is not a good basis to start a refereeing career on. If they think on this and decide that, actually, they are perfectly capable of the tough decisions and start to make them without fear of being unpopular, then that reflection was a worthwhile endeavour.

Wrapping people in cotton wool and sugar coating the realities doesn't do anyone any favours.
 
Padfoot said:
I'd be a lot more understanding if the OP hadn't realised he was in the wrong, came on here to seek others opinions, all of which told him he was wrong, but then goes on to say that they don't know what they would do if it happened again.

Part of being a referee is accepting that we make mistakes, learning from them and improving our games to try and not repeat them......for a new referee to make such a basic major error, but then be anything other than determined not to repeat it is, quite frankly, staggering.
And if part of that uncertainty is an unwillingness to make an unpopular decision then absolutely they should consider whether refereeing is the right thing for them, being fearful to make a tough decision is not a good basis to start a refereeing career on. If they think on this and decide that, actually, they are perfectly capable of the tough decisions and start to make them without fear of being unpopular, then that reflection was a worthwhile endeavour.

Wrapping people in cotton wool and sugar coating the realities doesn't do anyone any favours.
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Harsh, but fair.......
 
I understand Padder's argument. I have always been told that we are not supposed to be liked, but respected.

The OP has made a decision that will increase the chance of them liking him. In future this will lead to some teams taking the piss and walking all over him.

My advice - start with officiating youth matches to get practical experience.

Good luck to the OP but I have very little sympathy for him in this predicament
 
i messed up on numerous occasions, who doesn't, but to make an error, fine, seek advice that confirms the error, fine, and to then say that you would do it again the same way sounds like a flawed logic...Hows that improving, its actually rather a silly way to behave!! Why ask in the first place!!
 
Just going back to an earlier comment on here... red cards from friendlies can carry over into competitive games.

Only last week in a friendly... home player knocks a ball past an away team defender, defender has no chance of catching up... so literally clotheslines the attacker to the deck! Red card for SFP, banned for one game starting seven days after the sending off (it's now seven days, not 14). I think it's at the discretion of the Football Association. Same team then trashed and flooded the home teams changing room... lovely people.
 
On friendlies, especially when I used to do them at senior levels, I would also tell the captains that I will try to manage things but I can't manage the unmanageable. So a caution for SPA might get "missed", but anyone throws a punch, spits at someone, commits a very bad tackle, etc, they are all unmanageable so they will be walking.
 
Padfoot said:
I'd be a lot more understanding if the OP hadn't realised he was in the wrong, came on here to seek others opinions, all of which told him he was wrong, but then goes on to say that they don't know what they would do if it happened again.

Part of being a referee is accepting that we make mistakes, learning from them and improving our games to try and not repeat them......for a new referee to make such a basic major error, but then be anything other than determined not to repeat it is, quite frankly, staggering.
And if part of that uncertainty is an unwillingness to make an unpopular decision then absolutely they should consider whether refereeing is the right thing for them, being fearful to make a tough decision is not a good basis to start a refereeing career on. If they think on this and decide that, actually, they are perfectly capable of the tough decisions and start to make them without fear of being unpopular, then that reflection was a worthwhile endeavour.

Wrapping people in cotton wool and sugar coating the realities doesn't do anyone any favours.
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I think that's a bit harsh - I said that very early in the thread (I'd had two responses), and was still unsure what the consensus would be. Please remember this was my first game and the first chance I've had to really sit down and think about it.

Clearly I made the wrong call - thanks to everyone who has shared their thoughts.

Lesson learned.
 
josh91 said:
I think that's a bit harsh - I said that very early in the thread (I'd had two responses), and was still unsure what the consensus would be. Please remember this was my first game and the first chance I've had to really sit down and think about it.

Clearly I made the wrong call - thanks to everyone who has shared their thoughts.

Lesson learned.
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Please do your best to ignore Padfoot, he seems to enjoy trying to make other referees feel bad. Most of us on here are a more supportive bunch.
 
GraemeS said:
Please do your best to ignore Padfoot, he seems to enjoy trying to make other referees feel bad. Most of us on here are a more supportive bunch.
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Yes, they'll blow smoke up your rectum all day long....whereas I will give you a honest and forthright answer, which may not be the one you were hoping to hear but it will be absolutely designed to leave in no doubt about the answer.

And, its nothing personal, I simply don't do "pink and fluffy" with anyone.

Anyway, glad to hear that you now realise the only correct outcome should you ever be in that situation again.
 
When I was on the tools I had 40-50 different workmates over 20 years.. I always did 90% of the driving and always gave a short speech on the first day about I wasn't there to be their friend, I was there to get a job done, period. I would promise to say things they weren't going to like and it was never personal. Job first fun later!! I told them that should we achieve a daily target we would enjoy ourselves and we would enjoy the night on me. I've stood nose to nose against quite a few of them but always got my way.. Padfoot is 100% correct, he has a blunt style but his thought pattern is usually spot on. Why should you candy coat something that he sought 'professional' advice for and then ignored it!! Hopefully he's learned a lesson... We all make mistakes, there are many threads asking for advice or admitting mistakes, be prepared to learn, be humble, if you don't like the advice then ignore it. Read the good book, understand it and come back with new questions next time!!! Never stop learning!!!
 
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Padders has a point, sometimes it's just best to call a spade a spade.

Friendly or not you know it should have been a red card.

As referees we need to show integrity and, for want of a better word, courage. As the commandant at RMAS used to say "Do the right thing, not the easy thing."

They players will come out the all the good ones, like "you've ruined the game", "it's only a friendly" etc etc, but as you do more games your confidence will grow, and before you know it, it will be like water off a ducks back.
 
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