Promotion

[JamesL]

Just waiting for my L4 confirmation having passed all the various competency and fitness tests.

Me too. I was done by September for assessments.
Hoping we find out a lot earlier this year. I didnt get promoted last season due to availability and "ranked outside numbers required". This year my availability has been much improved and my average mark higher too so fingers crossed.
Best of luck to you.

 

[Russell Jones]

Surely the problem with 'unfit' or 'unready' L4's lay at the feet of assessors and counties

I disagree. We're discussing the level of AR competency for newly promoted L4s. This is not currently included in the criteria by which these referees are assesed by observers / counties. Any aspiring L5 should be abundantly clear from their promotion seminar and 'general chat', that if they make it to L4 they will be spending the majority of their Saturdays on the line. Thus the responsibility for ensuring they are up to this task rests fully on those referees' shoulders .....

 

[JamesL]

I disagree. We're discussing the level of AR competency for newly promoted L4s. This is not currently included in the criteria by which these referees are assesed by observers / counties. Any aspiring L5 should be abundantly clear from their promotion seminar and 'general chat', that if they make it to L4 they will be spending the majority of their Saturdays on the line. Thus the responsibility for ensuring they are up to this task rests fully on those referees' shoulders .....

cant believe that a referee can get to level 4 without ever being observed. To go from 7 -4 thats a minimum of 20 lines. These will be over supply league or county cup. A lot of county cup games are assessed for prospective level 4s and a lot of supply league games are too. I think the point that Paul might be trying to make is that whilst you have to do 10 games as an assistant referee these should also be graded as part of the promotion criteria to 1) give referees the neccesary development as ARs and
2) if as you say a l4 will do mostly assisting then it makes sense they are proven as capable before being promoted.
I dont disagree that ultimately a referee is responsible for their performance as an AR or as a ref but can it be said that their is a level of irresponsibility on a county fa or fa part that referees who maybe arent capable are being sent to contributory league games where some players are being paid and spectators are paying for entry?

 

[Paul March]

Me too. I was done by September for assessments.
Hoping we find out a lot earlier this year. I didnt get promoted last season due to availability and "ranked outside numbers required". This year my availability has been much improved and my average mark higher too so fingers crossed.
Best of luck to you.

Best wishes to you to, if you are in the southern half of the country we may bump into each other

 

[Paul March]

Thanks James, over the last 3 years I have been assessed as an assistant on supply games as part of the refs assessment programme. I have had my share of difficult conversations. I think they have stood me in good stead for the future

However several times assessors have said that they won't bother with feedback as it is not worth it. This is where my comments about assessor s is aimed at.

I do think the CFA should assess refs at least twice as an assistant in their 5-4 season. Might help save some of the problems our L3 colleagues face. If you don't know you are doing it wrong then you can only expect problems when you are dropped into a contrib game....

I don't profess to be the best ref or Lino but I know I am prepared for what I am about to face. Not sure every other new 4 is

 

[JamesL]

I am lucky in that my old district FA ran a training course as has the county. The one with district was tutored by anthony taylor from which I was able to pick up some useful hints and tips from these sessions.

From doing lines in the supply league I have seen all ends.of the spectrum good and bad.so can see how this possibly creeps in to level 4.

Also benefitted from several assessment over the years so like yourself I am in good stead should I make it this time.

 

[HullRef]

Just straying off topic slightly, does anyone know if the national FA ever reject a nomination from a county FA and if so what reasons it could be for.

I'm aware that for level 4 the CFA nominates you to the National FA for promotion after you have met the criteria but I've never known anyone nominated get rejected. Does this happen?

 

[JamesL]

Just straying off topic slightly, does anyone know if the national FA ever reject a nomination from a county FA and if so what reasons it could be for.

I'm aware that for level 4 the CFA nominates you to the National FA for promotion after you have met the criteria but I've never known anyone nominated get rejected. Does this happen?

Yes it happened to me last season. Reasons are above in the thread. I had met all the "criteria"

 

[RustyRef]

cant believe that a referee can get to level 4 without ever being observed. To go from 7 -4 thats a minimum of 20 lines. These will be over supply league or county cup. A lot of county cup games are assessed for prospective level 4s and a lot of supply league games are too. I think the point that Paul might be trying to make is that whilst you have to do 10 games as an assistant referee these should also be graded as part of the promotion criteria to 1) give referees the neccesary development as ARs and
2) if as you say a l4 will do mostly assisting then it makes sense they are proven as capable before being promoted.
I dont disagree that ultimately a referee is responsible for their performance as an AR or as a ref but can it be said that their is a level of irresponsibility on a county fa or fa part that referees who maybe arent capable are being sent to contributory league games where some players are being paid and spectators are paying for entry?

As the rules stand the 10 games as assistant needed for promotion to L4 can be in any competition, they can be in the Dog and Duck league and don't need to be at any kind of senior level. So a new level 4 could easily get promoted without having ever been assessed on the line.

 

[JamesL]

As the rules stand the 10 games as assistant needed for promotion to L4 can be in any competition, they can be in the Dog and Duck league and don't need to be at any kind of senior level. So a new level 4 could easily get promoted without having ever been assessed on the line.

Fair enough. But even at that level you'd get some hints and tips from other refs. If I had an assistant not doing it right I'd be offering some guidance at ht and ft as to how they might improve. I still think if it forms part of the promotion criteria then there should be a required standard, as I previously said the next level is a big step up with paid players and paying fans who have a right to expect a certain level of service.

 

[lincs22]

Just straying off topic slightly, does anyone know if the national FA ever reject a nomination from a county FA and if so what reasons it could be for.

I'm aware that for level 4 the CFA nominates you to the National FA for promotion after you have met the criteria but I've never known anyone nominated get rejected. Does this happen?

Yes, it can happen due to disciplinary aspects / past performance. If you had been a L4 before then they are more wary of promoting you again, if you are likely to fail again. There are also stories of referees on the facebook not being promoted due to content. While not enough to breach referee regulations, they could be enough to embrass the FA.