Pitch invader shoulder charged by player

[Anubis]

The guy was approaching the player. She neutralized the threat.

It's almost the textbook definition of self-defense.

Anubis had the same "let the fans have free rein at the players" in a similar discussion last week. I don't understand why he's willing to allow player safety to be endangered by fans, but he's entitled to that opinion.

Am million per cent concerned with player safety, and, should an invader come near me, I am honest enough to say I wont back down

I honestly think tho you are failing to grasp that as match officials, whether we agree with it or not, we do need to adhere to the lotg book
Without this, we are not match officials but outlaws.

In the Dundee Utd one, the player went in to confront a fan
in this clip, the player goes in to confront a fan, so if nothing else am consistent!

whether morally, ethically etc we think otherwise, there is no allowance made for a players actions to a fan. To invent our own interpretations, is not football refereeing


the only debate this clip can have is, yellow or red.

the one thing factually, as countless other posters have said, this cannot be, legally, ( given self defence is not a consideration anywhere in the lotg), is, self defence,
Hopefully the other 99.99% of patrons who view the clip realise this.

 

[bester]

Violent conduct?!?! Unless you're going with the, when it suits, any force is excessive argument I don't see it at all.
She's not even running at pace.

This incident wasn't punished at all...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467218992112844803

 

[Joshref]

It's almost the textbook definition of self-defense.

Listen, on a personal level I have no problem with a player doing this. As soon as a fan comes onto the pitch I want to see them gone as soon as possible. Of course, as a ref I have to give the correct sanction, in this case yellow imo.

But to call it self defence? He’s nowhere near her, he’s likely not posing a threat to her, and she takes him down. Do I agree with her? Yes. Is it self defence? No

 

[RefIADad]

There is no threat of violence, this is just an idiot running around a pitch.

We know that after the fact. How was anyone to know that as things are occurring?

 

[Joshref]

We know that after the fact. How was anyone to know that as things are occurring?

There was no threat of violence. If he started approaching her or another one of the women, then there’s a threat of violence. It’s not self defence if there’s no threat of violence involved. There’s numerous cases in the media where this has been shown in the last 18 months in a real life setting. On a pitch it’s no different. I can see your point of view, if you had a different argument I might agree, but self defence is not a valid argument here sorry

 

[Anubis]

We know that after the fact. How was anyone to know that as things are occurring?

We dont know. The whole principle of self defence tho is you defend yourself from attack.
As factually there was no attack, there is nothing to defend yourself from.

It might be cultural as others have suggested.

There is no right or wrong on the refereeing of the incident, as much as i would go yelow, and i agree with the match referees yellow, I can understand, if disagree with red


Heres more to consider. That pitch invader has grounds to claim he was assaulted......him being on the pitch does not waver his immunity to assault.

 

[santa sangria]

For me, easy red. This isn't a challenge, it's not a question of excessive force.
You just can't have a player assault a fan in any way. Fan on the pitch is not the players' concern. It's for the match organisers.
It has to be a red card for me. Simples.

 

[Tealeaf]

There’s also a precedent for these incidents resulting in cards.

I can’t find a video but several years ago, a player manager rugby tackled an invader who’d come very close to him and actually did the stewards a favour (they couldn’t get near him) allowing them to detain him. The referee was almost apologetic as he red carded him, but it was confined afterwards that he had no other option in law.

On the self defence argument, there was the Dutch Eredivisie incident too with a goalkeeper. He was struck by and invader and reacted. This was understandable and justified as self defence. However he then proceeded to literally put the boot in as the invader was prone on the ground. He too saw red despite claiming self defence.

I remember arguing at the time that self defence ended after the first strike. Defend yourself and create room to get away to safety. Any further striking or kicking strayed into the realms of assault.

 

[RustyRef]

I think the fact it was just a shoulder barge makes a caution acceptable, Ill advised from the player but certainly not volient.

 

[one]

I'd go for red for this. Is yellow acceptable? Yes for me with a bit of hesitation. The intent was to floor him but not hurt him, if that makes sense. And she achieved as she intended.

I don't buy self defence either. My expectations are if a spectator is walking towards you (and I don't think this one was walking to Kerr), you walk away and not towards the spectator.

 

[Peter Grove]

only one of them was aggressive and made contact with the other ( despite the obvious fact the invader should not be there)

You obviously haven't seen the whole incident. The guy had been wandering around the pitch for some minutes and had already approached and physically confronted at least one other player. From what I saw he was definitely an aggressor in terms of the overall situation.

I don't agree with the way Kerr dealt with this but to say she was the only one being aggressive is wrong.

There was no threat of violence. If he started approaching her or another one of the women, then there’s a threat of violence.

Again you need to see the longer clip. He had already approached other players - and in one case, made physical contact as far as I could tell.

For instance, here's a still where to me, he appeared to grab Magdalena Eriksson by the arm.

 

[Redster]

As far as self defence is concerned this is, to use an Americanism, a pre-emptive strike.

 

[Anubis]

You obviously haven't seen the whole incident. The guy had been wandering around the pitch for some minutes and had already approached and physically confronted at least one other player. From what I saw he was definitely an aggressor in terms of the overall situation.

I don't agree with the way Kerr dealt with this but to say she was the only one being aggressive is wrong.


Again you need to see the longer clip. He had already approached other players - and in one case, made physical contact as far as I could tell.

For instance, here's a still where to me, he appeared to grab Magdalena Eriksson by

When presented with a clip and comments invited on it, its impossible to pass comment on anything other than whats in the clip!

based on the clip in the original post, the player is the aggressor.

if there is a clip showing more, then the discussion can open up further.


if the invader has been on that long, and no security etc come on, safety first from referee, everybody to tunnel. Its certainly not for the plsyer to deal with ( as much as its pleasing to see the guy decked)

1- for her own safety
2- to ensure she does not face punishment herself

 

[Peter Grove]

Its certainly not for the player to deal with ( as much as its pleasing to see the guy decked)

1- for her own safety
2- to ensure she does not face punishment

Yes, that's why I said:

I don't agree with the way Kerr dealt with this

 

[Dino Ref]

Reminded me of this.

 

[socal lurker]

To me a core take away is that professional games have to be much better prepared with security to deal with these. In the pic @Peter Grove posted, the miscreant is in the center circle, and there is not a single security person even in the pic. While these events are not every day events, they are certainly common enough that facilities should be ready to rapidly respond.

 

[RefJef]

To me a core take away is that professional games have to be much better prepared with security to deal with these. In the pic @Peter Grove posted, the miscreant is in the center circle, and there is not a single security person even in the pic. While these events are not every day events, they are certainly common enough that facilities should be ready to rapidly respond.

I was thinking along similar lines, and what would I do if something like this happened at one of my games (in amongst the weeds of grassroots)

And this is what I thought …

If we have a spectator invade the pitch at my games, its only us (“players, coaches & me) that are available to deal with it, so if a player intervenes and gets them off the pitch, I’m happy with that. Obviously if the first action is that a player goes up and thumps the invader i need to sanction the player, but if the invader can’t be told to leave the pitch and a player grabs them and drags them off the pitch, I’m happy with that.

Any other thoughts about how to handle such an incident at the level many of us operate at?

 

[socal lurker]

Seems to me this type of invader is only going to happen at games that are a high enough level to get a bunch of attention, not at our routine playing-for-fun levels.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I was thinking along similar lines, and what would I do if something like this happened at one of my games (in amongst the weeds of grassroots)

And this is what I thought …

If we have a spectator invade the pitch at my games, its only us (“players, coaches & me) that are available to deal with it, so if a player intervenes and gets them off the pitch, I’m happy with that. Obviously if the first action is that a player goes up and thumps the invader i need to sanction the player, but if the invader can’t be told to leave the pitch and a player grabs them and drags them off the pitch, I’m happy with that.

Any other thoughts about how to handle such an incident at the level many of us operate at?

If you know which team the numbskull supports, ask the captain to encourage the invader to leave, and stress "Don't hit him (or her)"

 

[one]

I was thinking along similar lines, and what would I do if something like this happened at one of my games (in amongst the weeds of grassroots)

And this is what I thought …

If we have a spectator invade the pitch at my games, its only us (“players, coaches & me) that are available to deal with it, so if a player intervenes and gets them off the pitch, I’m happy with that. Obviously if the first action is that a player goes up and thumps the invader i need to sanction the player, but if the invader can’t be told to leave the pitch and a player grabs them and drags them off the pitch, I’m happy with that.

Any other thoughts about how to handle such an incident at the level many of us operate at?

Our leagues have club officials around. Teams also have supply one 'yellow vested' official to control their fans. In either case best to not ask players to handle it.

The closest I have ever come to a pitch invader in my games (outside of brawls ) is in park football when a passing by old lady walked diagonal across the field almost corner to corner. I stopped the game as soon as I noticed. No one dared say anything or get close to her and she took her sweet time.