Pen or no pen?

[RefJef]

U19s game today, white attacker surges into box (about 3m to right of goal post, so not directly in front of goal) with ball at feet. Red defenders start to crowd around him and he losses control of the ball which is now running away from him and going out (but not yet gone) for a goal kick. White attacker still running after ball, but he won't get to it.

Red defender shifts his body positition, white attacker goes over red. Bit theatrical, but contact made.

Penalty or no penalty?

Bought the whistle to my lips, but didn't blow. With the wonder of 20/20 hindsight, I think I should have done. Justified not blowing (to myself) as attacker no longer had the ball, and the collision could have been described as a coming together, but sat here a few hours later I'm not so sure.

Doesn't really matter - was a (good natured) friendly between two colleges, bit of a trial match for both squads (with players new to the respective sixth forms introducing themselves to each other as they rotated on and off) reds eventually won 6-2 and white team coach is a colleague & good mate: no hard feelings anywhere. But given my sketchy description above, should I have given a pen?

 

[MatthewC]

Sounds like a pen to me. Attacker not having the ball is entirely irrelevant, though can make the penalty decision slightly harder to sell. The question you've got to ask yourself is did the defender lunge/trip/make any movement into the attackers path causing the contact or was it a genuine 'coming together'?

As you said, doesn't really matter if it didn't affect the outcome of the game and was only a friendly anyway, but it's good to look back on incidents like this and use them to aid development.

 

[mikedn]

Going back a couple of seasons refereeing a match and i give a corner, balls coming over in mid flight and i see a defender pulling an away players shirt just off the goal line... i blow the whistle point to the spot and give a penalty, player who pulled shirt said " What did i do?" i pulled at my shirt and said "This on him" penalty scored .... no complaints

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Hard to imagine what happened.....on first reading it sounds like the defender clearly put a late hit on the attacker. In which case, that's a penalty. If it was theatrical that that makes the foul questionable so you can justify leaning more towards not giving it....but your description doesn't really sound like a 'mutual fault contact'

 

[Will Triffitt]

If you are not sure, don't give! I had a couple of incidents like that in the weekend (not in either penalty area). @MatthewC is right though. Did they make an attempt to stop the attacker getting to the ball or was it just a collision. The more dramatic a response of the person who has been fouled is, especially in the penalty area, sometimes the less sure I am about it. I think you probably could have gone with either decision to be honest!!!

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Taking the incident out of it a second i have picked up on something else that you have said......"Brought the whistle to my lips", maybe you have the same habit as me. It's something i am trying to eradicate from my game as it so often brings a shout of "you were gonna blow then ref", it is almost an instinct thing as i am contemplating a decision. I am about 90% on it now.

It may have been a one off or a figure of speech but just though id mention it.

 

[richard ramjane]

yup, ive done the same on occasion, put the whistle to lip while thinking about whats just occurred / replaying the incident in my head... i guess it doesnt look great, but when questioned with 'you were gonna blow' or ' you had the whistle in your mouth ref' i'll just respond with a quick, '' but i didnt blow did i '' and move on
its generally been accepted, but agree, if i can cut that out of my game then i'd prefer it

 

[Will Triffitt]

Taking the incident out of it a second i have picked up on something else that you have said......"Brought the whistle to my lips", maybe you have the same habit as me. It's something i am trying to eradicate from my game as it so often brings a shout of "you were gonna blow then ref", it is almost an instinct thing as i am contemplating a decision. I am about 90% on it now.

It may have been a one off or a figure of speech but just though id mention it.

I do that too much!

 

[MatthewC]

I used to do that all the time. Been spotted by players during several heated games where I was at risk of loosing control, and they've absolutely exploded over it. Try and get it out of your game, because if you haven't had a problem with it yet, there'll be a time when you do, and you'll wish you sorted it out now. Players are often looking for an excuse to explode, don't give them it!

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Assessors look out for it too!
If you do put the whistle in your mouth, I've been suggested to leave it there and run around for a few moments (not too long - assessors hate that too....and it does put you at risk of losing teeth. Happened to a colleague....), so it doesn't look so much like indecision.

 

[GraemeS]

Assessors look out for it too!
If you do put the whistle in your mouth, I've been suggested to leave it there and run around for a few moments (not too long - assessors hate that too....and it does put you at risk of losing teeth. Happened to a colleague....), so it doesn't look so much like indecision.

That's a really good tip! I've said "I thought there was going to be a foul but it didn't develop that way" before as an excuse, this is basically saying the same thing without the words!

 

[RefJef]

Taking the incident out of it a second i have picked up on something else that you have said......"Brought the whistle to my lips", maybe you have the same habit as me. It's something i am trying to eradicate from my game as it so often brings a shout of "you were gonna blow then ref", it is almost an instinct thing as i am contemplating a decision. I am about 90% on it now.

It may have been a one off or a figure of speech but just though id mention it.

A great example of the value of this forum.

(Just like the penalty), I was in two minds as to whether to post the question - really was one of those "you had to be there" situations, but some great advice, nonetheless.

And then you get @Cheshire Ref s post above - would never have thought of that, great advice. I have an U16s game this evening - will make it one of my targets for the game.

Thanks, as ever, to all.

 

[Mewcenary]

What was the reaction from the players at the time?

 

[SM]

Taking the incident out of it a second i have picked up on something else that you have said......"Brought the whistle to my lips", maybe you have the same habit as me. It's something i am trying to eradicate from my game as it so often brings a shout of "you were gonna blow then ref", it is almost an instinct thing as i am contemplating a decision. I am about 90% on it now.

It may have been a one off or a figure of speech but just though id mention it.

I do this on occasion, less now than in seasons gone by. I have a few phrases to get out of it if a player mentions it. My favourite;

"You were going to blow then ref!"

"I was anticipating you were going to put in another poor challenge mate..." Big smile

Run to next position.

(Note: please use banter with caution!!)

 

[PinnerPaul]

Its just like a misplaced pass for a player, we/they shouldn't do it, but it happens!