A&H

OFFINABUS?

DazN

DazN

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Had a good natured U11s game yesterday with some good football played and a generally good attitude from most involved.

I say ‘most’ as there was one lad on the away team who let himself down.

The first thing that seemed to annoy him was my insistence that he retake a few of his throws (with guidance from me about what he was doing wrong). Then we had an incident with the corner flag. He took it out and threw it to the side as it was ‘in his way.’ I blew the whistle and went over and put it back and told him he couldn’t remove it. He removed it again. I put it back again. He then placed the ball about two feet from the flag (there were no marked corner circles) so I made him move it back. He was clearly not a happy bunny but eventually he seemed to get over himself and get on with the game. His team went on to win 3-2.

After the game, the home assistant coach came over to away assistant and said that during the handshakes after the game the same lad had told one of the players ‘they were too fat to play football and should go to the gym’

After the game, in my league report I ticked the option that ‘there were incidents of poor behaviour’ from the away team as a result of the behaviour of this player.

Fast forward to this morning when I get a phone call from the home coach to say that a parent had made a complaint as the same lad had called the only girl on their team ‘a transvestite’ and used some other derogatory sexual language that has made her not want to play football anymore. The club welfare officer had asked him to contact me to find out whether I had heard him say it. I told him that I hadn’t heard anything offensive from the player and that if I had I would have been obliged to take action.

Which brings about the question… Would it be correct to show a red card to an u11 player for OFFINABUS?

The sad finale to all this was that as I was leaving I saw the same player leaving with his team’s MotM medal around his neck.
 
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DazN said:
He then placed the ball about two feet from the flag (there were no marked corner circles) so I made him move it back.
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hmm. The corner arc is a yard, and two feet is less than a yard, so why did you make him move it?

local expectations matter, but I would have no problem sending off an 11U player for OFFINABUS if he said someth8ng that warranted it.
 
This is a tricky one for me. Clearly the behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be sanctioned but red carding a 10 year old is problematic in my view. In Australia this age group would be regarded as miniroos and the normal disaplinary approach would be to require the Coach to substitute the player for a while or the remainder of the game. We don’t use cards at U11 with these generally only kicking in at juniors which start at U13. At this very young age group the emphasis is on game leadership and coaching rather than refereeing. It is sad that this kind of behaviour is starting so early and causing such damage. Removing the player from the game is the ultimate punishment for kids who want to play and in my view it doesn’t really matter how that is achieved. I would personally save the cards for older age groups and rely upon the punishment of lost game time and counselling from the coach / manager to address the issue. If this is unsuccessful then there are of course other options through the club and relavent football association.
 
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RefRyanAus said:
This is a tricky one for me. Clearly the behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be sanctioned but red carding a 10 year old is problematic in my view. In Australia this age group would be regarded as miniroos and the normal disaplinary approach would be to require the Coach to substitute the player for a while or the remainder of the game. We don’t use cards at U11 with these generally only kicking in at juniors which start at U13. At this very young age group the emphasis is on game leadership and coaching rather than refereeing. It is sad that this kind of behaviour is starting so early and causing such damage. Removing the player from the game is the ultimate punishment for kids who want to play and in my view it doesn’t really matter how that is achieved. I would personally save the cards for older age groups and rely upon the punishment of lost game time and counselling from the coach / manager to address the issue. If this is unsuccessful then there are of course other options through the club and relavent football association.
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I was about to post the same. The only issue is that a kid at this age won't be where he is unless, at the very least, there was some level of ignorance form parents and/or the coaches. But not much we can do about that. For me, tell the coach to take him off or I will. It has to be a report as well to have some record in case there is a pattern of behaviour (which is likely).
 
DazN said:
Had a good natured U11s game yesterday with some good football played and a generally good attitude from most involved.

I say ‘most’ as there was one lad on the away team who let himself down.

The first thing that seemed to annoy him was my insistence that he retake a few of his throws (with guidance from me about what he was doing wrong). Then we had an incident with the corner flag. He took it out and threw it to the side as it was ‘in his way.’ I blew the whistle and went over and put it back and told him he couldn’t remove it. He removed it again. I put it back again. He then placed the ball about two feet from the flag (there were no marked corner circles) so I made him move it back. He was clearly not a happy bunny but eventually he seemed to get over himself and get on with the game. His team went on to win 3-2.

After the game, the home assistant coach came over to away assistant and said that during the handshakes after the game the same lad had told one of the players ‘they were too fat to play football and should go to the gym’

After the game, in my league report I ticked the option that ‘there were incidents of poor behaviour’ from the away team as a result of the behaviour of this player.

Fast forward to this morning when I get a phone call from the home coach to say that a parent had made a complaint as the same lad had called the only girl on their team ‘a transvestite’ and used some other derogatory sexual language that has made her not want to play football anymore. The club welfare officer had asked him to contact me to find out whether I had heard him say it. I told him that I hadn’t heard anything offensive from the player and that if I had I would have been obliged to take action.

Which brings about the question… Would it be correct to show a red card to an u11 player for OFFINABUS?

The sad finale to all this was that as I was leaving I saw the same player leaving with his team’s MotM medal around his neck.
Click to expand...
Sometimes cards and report are the only answer. This player is out of control.
 
DazN said:
Had a good natured U11s game yesterday with some good football played and a generally good attitude from most involved.

I say ‘most’ as there was one lad on the away team who let himself down.

The first thing that seemed to annoy him was my insistence that he retake a few of his throws (with guidance from me about what he was doing wrong). Then we had an incident with the corner flag. He took it out and threw it to the side as it was ‘in his way.’ I blew the whistle and went over and put it back and told him he couldn’t remove it. He removed it again. I put it back again. He then placed the ball about two feet from the flag (there were no marked corner circles) so I made him move it back. He was clearly not a happy bunny but eventually he seemed to get over himself and get on with the game. His team went on to win 3-2.

After the game, the home assistant coach came over to away assistant and said that during the handshakes after the game the same lad had told one of the players ‘they were too fat to play football and should go to the gym’

After the game, in my league report I ticked the option that ‘there were incidents of poor behaviour’ from the away team as a result of the behaviour of this player.

Fast forward to this morning when I get a phone call from the home coach to say that a parent had made a complaint as the same lad had called the only girl on their team ‘a transvestite’ and used some other derogatory sexual language that has made her not want to play football anymore. The club welfare officer had asked him to contact me to find out whether I had heard him say it. I told him that I hadn’t heard anything offensive from the player and that if I had I would have been obliged to take action.

Which brings about the question… Would it be correct to show a red card to an u11 player for OFFINABUS?

The sad finale to all this was that as I was leaving I saw the same player leaving with his team’s MotM medal around his neck.
Click to expand...
It's always tough showing cards at youth level especially reds. I had a red in U14 for SFP this weekend. Obviously I didn't make the decision lightly and I was in two minds right until I showed the card but I'm happy I made the right decision. You didn't hear anything so you couldn't take action. Onto the next game.
 
If it warrants a card, it warrants a card.

Obviously in any youth football we’d try to avoid it, but part of the learning process.

The insults regarding protected characteristics, I’d put in a WGS extraordinary report just to say that it has been reported to you.

That way county will deal with the rest. Unfortunately, there are some people who will always get it wrong - that isn’t our responsibility as referees.
 
RefRyanAus said:
This is a tricky one for me. Clearly the behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be sanctioned but red carding a 10 year old is problematic in my view. In Australia this age group would be regarded as miniroos and the normal disaplinary approach would be to require the Coach to substitute the player for a while or the remainder of the game.
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There are definitely schools of thought re showing cards in youth games, which need to be resolved through local expectations. AYSO in the US discourages showing the cards in younger divisions on the premise that the public nature of the card ceremony is. To age appropriate. But that isn’t the same thing as not having cautions and send offs. The cards aren’t shown, the p,Ayer and coach are told In the rare cases they occur in those levels. Typically cards start getting shown, when needed, at 12U, but in a more gentle way than with older players.
 
If a 10 year old is calling opposition players transvestites then they need some swift education. Failing to take proper action as per the laws means that doesn't allow that to happen and guarantees that child will continue to behave that way.

Give him the card, write the report and hopefully he'll learn a valuable lesson.
 
Will_A said:
If a 10 year old is calling opposition players transvestites then they need some swift education. Failing to take proper action as per the laws means that doesn't allow that to happen and guarantees that child will continue to behave that way.

Give him the card, write the report and hopefully he'll learn a valuable lesson.
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I didn't hear it (or the other insult)

I honestly don't want my first card to be shown at this age group (I've asked coaches to take players off before but I haven't encountered an OFFINABUS scenario yet), but if I had heard it I think I would have shown him red.
 
Wolf_Ref said:
If it warrants a card, it warrants a card.

Obviously in any youth football we’d try to avoid it, but part of the learning process.

The insults regarding protected characteristics, I’d put in a WGS extraordinary report just to say that it has been reported to you.

That way county will deal with the rest. Unfortunately, there are some people who will always get it wrong - that isn’t our responsibility as referees.
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Can I retrospectively add a WGS report? At the time I submitted mine, I didn't know about what has been alleged.
 
DazN said:
Can I retrospectively add a WGS report? At the time I submitted mine, I didn't know about what has been alleged.
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Yes you can - just put it through as a separate one and perhaps send your RDO or discipline officer at county know.
 
I tend to disagree with others here, if it warrants a yellow or red at that age, you should show the card. The players (and parents/coaches) need to learn before they get to 14/15 and are a nightmare to manage. Remember the fine goes to the club, they can of course decide to pay the fine if they think it’s inappropriate at that age. I say that but just a ref but also as a former youth coach. Many a time I had players and parents who were just so difficult on match days, I really hoped the referees would issue cards and sanctions
 
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It’s also worth mentioning about game management here in terms of cards.. something I have learnt from this very forum and fallen foul to myself previously ..

If you have a chance to take a yellow, take it.

Numerous times (especially in youth football) I have not carded simply because they are younger and have regretted it later on.

Tough to manage, sounds like you did well, well done.
 
Entered an Extraordinary report on the WGS, contacted the County RDO and had a reply saying I've done the correct thing. Done all I can do from my perspective.

Thanks for the advice all!
 
A bit of added context here. At that age many leagues don't play to the full laws of the game (example in post #5) and may require no cards to be shown. So as a referee who has accepted to referee the game, we have also accepted to follow the rules that come with it. Duty of care however comes above all. Depending on the severity of the offence, we have to make sure the offender takes no further part (regardless of showing card), and if not achievable then abandon game.

@DazN well done on the reporting. Any pattern of poor behaviour can't be established without the reports.
 
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