A&H

My weekend

G

Gary Milton

Member
Level 7 Referee
Had "one of those" games yesterday.

Previous to this I had a OA game sat, which went well considering the state of the pitch. no chance of a call off but was horrible. I managed situations well I thought, called captains in whn required, stepped approach etc etc and it worked IMO, and the players seemed to be greatful.

The only Question I have from the game was.

- Is every 2 footed challenge a red card?

A player comes in, not with excessive force IMO, but 2 footed off the floor, thus not being in control. He doesnt catch the player at all, and wins the ball completely clean. I blew for a freekick. The player was going mad, i won the ball etc etc. I chose my words carefully as I had made my mind up that I would not book him. I said something like,
I am not denying you didnt touch the player and you got the ball, however your tackle was made in a careless manor.

Now had there been contact with the player i would have more than likely sent him off. In hindsight I probably should have booked him? - well i guess thats my question. In reality 2 footed off the floor is a reckless way to challenge for the ball, i.e caution. Thoughts?

And yesterday - U18's

Started off by having lunch too close to the match - very unusual for me. blood sugars dropped and I felt dizzy etc, . It effected my concentration and I gave some, albeit minor decisions (corners, throw ins) (I may be shredded for my description of minor decisions) completely wrong and have no idea why I did it. It was as if I couldn't see what was infront of me. I couldnt remember what I had just seen so was doubting myself etc etc. One decision caused some considerable discent, which I cautioned, but i have no idea if i was right in the initial decision. (not that there is any excuse for discent). In addition my knee went in the 10th minute. Not so bad to stop the game but enough to effect my ability to be box to box as i usually would, and again played on my mind.

Half time choc bar helped I felt alot better and performed better IMO for it. However I went home very disappointed in myself.
Ah well - I guess we all have those days... don't we?
 
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You've described the challenge as '2 footed off the floor, thus not being in control'. That's a red card for me. Two feet and off the floor is not in control and irrespective of he got the ball i would deem it serious foul play.

The second point is all down to match preparation but for food and a warm up. I hope your knee is fine now, but I learned a long time ago to ensure you are physically prepared for the game. It seems you have learned from it, which will assist you going forward.
 
Gary Milton said:
Had "one of those" games yesterday.
- Is every 2 footed challenge a red card?

A player comes in, not with excessive force IMO, but 2 footed off the floor, thus not being in control. He doesnt catch the player at all, and wins the ball completely clean. I blew for a freekick. The player was going mad, i won the ball etc etc. I chose my words carefully as I had made my mind up that I would not book him. I said something like,
I am not denying you didnt touch the player and you got the ball, however your tackle was made in a careless manor.

Now had there been contact with the player i would have more than likely sent him off. In hindsight I probably should have booked him? - well i guess thats my question. In reality 2 footed off the floor is a reckless way to challenge for the ball, i.e caution. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree with @Denis McCarthy but No - every 2 footed challenge is not a red card. For it to be excessive force -
“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.
• A player who uses excessive force must be sent off
Click to expand...

Therefore, if there is no danger to an opponent then it cannot be a red card. But, wherever possible, you shoudl be awarding a free-kick against him and warning him that these tackles are "stupid" because once an opponent is involved it is RED. The reason for the free-kick it that the challenge is careless:
“Careless” means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or that he acted without precaution.
Click to expand...
 
Lincs22, just to clarify I did not suggest 'every two footed challenge'. I was refering to the OP and the challenge in the game. I've read the OP as the opponent being in control of the ball and the player tackling two footed to win the ball. Maybe the Gary can tidy that up.

However if the opponent had control the ball and the player made a two footed challenge off the floor to win the ball, IMO that is endangering an opponent and red card for me.
 
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Gary Milton said:
The only Question I have from the game was.

- Is every 2 footed challenge a red card?

A player comes in, not with excessive force IMO, but 2 footed off the floor, thus not being in control. He doesnt catch the player at all, and wins the ball completely clean. I blew for a freekick. The player was going mad, i won the ball etc etc. I chose my words carefully as I had made my mind up that I would not book him. I said something like,
I am not denying you didnt touch the player and you got the ball, however your tackle was made in a careless manor.

Now had there been contact with the player i would have more than likely sent him off. In hindsight I probably should have booked him? - well i guess thats my question. In reality 2 footed off the floor is a reckless way to challenge for the ball, i.e caution. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
To answer your question, no not every two-footed tackle is a red card. However, they usually are, as they tend to be made by players speeding into the challenge, and therefore have a lot of force behind the tackle. But with little or no momentum behind them, it's quite possible that a tackle could merely be reckless, or even just careless.

I had a similar situation to yours in a game a couple of seasons ago. I yellowed the player for it. Despite the remarks of "Oh, you're gonna have loads of cards today if you keep that up ref", as I recall there wasn't another bad tackle in the game. If the player argues about it, you can come back with "It's just as well you didn't get the man fella, or you'd be off"!
 
Thanks for your comments.

I understand your initial point Denis.
If I am honest before the game asked the same question I would probably have said that they should be red. I mean whatever happens it was always gonna be a freekick. That bit was simple. There was no contact with the player (again had there been he would have walked). There really wasn't excessive force in the tackle and it was timed to perfection. So I thought well its not ticked those boxes.
The reason why I say in hindsight I would yellow the same again is that going in 2 footed imo I think is reckless due to the lack of control. So I agree entirely with your incident Alex. After all all it takes is a fraction of a second difference and it turns really nasty.

For me it was purely the fact that if there is no contact what so ever can they be endangering the opponent?

I guess it is one of those that need to be seen to fully understand.

Again thanks for the cmoments.
 
ANY tackle using two feet is in my opinion using excessive force and therefore a red card. There is no way in hell you can be in control and it's pot luck if you win the ball. A slight misjudgement in the tackle and the victim ends up off work for six months with a broken leg.

NB: Edited as I should have distinguished between tackle and challenge!
 
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Not every 2 footed leaping challenge is going to be a red card. If he wins the ball, I'd be wondering how close the ball was to the opponent in judging the risk.
 
Guidance from FA in the last 'big meeting' about this sort of thing:

Gets ball, not player: Yellow
Gets ball and player: RED
Gets player: RED

The jist of the above is that the challenge could be made without being close to the player at all (more of a block, to be honest). However, the moment ANY of the opponent is involved at all, that's RED.

Bit of a rule of thumb really, hopefully it makes sense.
 
Mewcenary said:
Guidance from FA in the last 'big meeting' about this sort of thing:

Gets ball, not player: Yellow
Gets ball and player: RED
Gets player: RED

The jist of the above is that the challenge could be made without being close to the player at all (more of a block, to be honest). However, the moment ANY of the opponent is involved at all, that's RED.

Bit of a rule of thumb really, hopefully it makes sense.
Click to expand...
What about if the player has to take evasive action? I have my colour for that instance
 
Nothing to do with force......two feet off the floor is DANGEROUS regardless of force as the player no longer has control over what happens next.....

Red card all day long........
 
Thanks everyone for the comments. So interesting points of view.

Mewcenary... I think the guidance here is spot on with how I saw it with hindsight.

I admit my error in the previous posts. A learning point for me.

Padfoot. Thanks for your ever intriguing insight however I will decline the red card fits all mantel, albeit I understand where you are coming from.

Hyperthetical one for you to test your theory padfoot.. player A running down the wing knocks the ball say 7 yards in front of him and continues to run. Player B comes in 2 footed off the floor.. no control... but cleans the ball up.. player A is a bit slow and still 4 yards away.. (no other players near) Red card??
 
If the player leaving his feet is nowhere near the opponent (ie ball is several yards in front and it comes from the side), then there's minimal if any risk to the opponent. Red card is just wrong as a mandatory approach.
Aled said:
What about if the player has to take evasive action? I have my colour for that instance
Click to expand...
Well, he did say it was a rule of thumb. I would think that if the ball was right at the player's feet this is going to be a red card as well.
 
Mewcenary said:
Guidance from FA in the last 'big meeting' about this sort of thing:

Gets ball, not player: Yellow
Gets ball and player: RED
Gets player: RED

The jist of the above is that the challenge could be made without being close to the player at all (more of a block, to be honest). However, the moment ANY of the opponent is involved at all, that's RED.

Bit of a rule of thumb really, hopefully it makes sense.
Click to expand...
THIS.

This was the message I got from my local Premiership referee almost 10 years ago and it has stood me and many others in good stead since then.

As for the blood sugar thing, without wanting to appear too nosey, is this part of an already diagnosed medical condition? Sorry if you've mentioned it higher up but I've just tidied up and submitted Saturday's Contrib assessments (along with a misconduct report - yes as an assessor), rearranged and reappointed some local Cup games and I was in the gym for two hours earlier, so I'm not in reading and understanding mode.
 
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