Manager demanded I speak to him

[Ori]

As far as I'm concerned it wasn't a dirty game.

Away team were 5-1 down with 9 minutes left to play when home team captain nudged the keeper and I blew for a foul. I had their players demanding a card and at his point a home team player did something stupid to take the ball away from the keeper, but I didn't see it as I was talking to one of away players, but I assumed he did it so I had a word with the offending player. As I didn't see it, I couldn't book him anyway as I can't just assume guilt.


At this point the away manager decided to enter my pitch without my permission and demand that I come over to speak to him. I am under no obligation to speak to him and waved him away (could have booked him for entering the field of play). His response was that if I don't come over to speak to him he will remove his players.

At this point he left me no choice as I'm not going to capitulate to him. He removed his players with 9 minutes to go.

He then came over and swore at me and called me a cheat. As did his assistance and I issued red cards to both. This was in front of the match delegate who also received abuse.

Following day, I get a text message from one of the managers giving a conditional apology…..which wasn’t an apology and justified their actions as a fear for their players safety.

Never had a game abandoned and not sure what happens next. I filled the whole game system and the full time system and marked the report for attention.

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

As far as I'm concerned it wasn't a dirty game.

Away team were 5-1 down with 9 minutes left to play when home team captain nudged the keeper and I blew for a foul. I had their players demanding a card and at his point a home team player did something stupid to take the ball away from the keeper, but I didn't see it as I was talking to one of away players, but I assumed he did it so I had a word with the offending player. As I didn't see it, I couldn't book him anyway as I can't just assume guilt.


At this point the away manager decided to enter my pitch without my permission and demand that I come over to speak to him. I am under no obligation to speak to him and waved him away (could have booked him for entering the field of play). His response was that if I don't come over to speak to him he will remove his players.

At this point he left me no choice as I'm not going to capitulate to him. He removed his players with 9 minutes to go.

He then came over and swore at me and called me a cheat. As did his assistance and I issued red cards to both. This was in front of the match delegate who also received abuse.

Following day, I get a text message from one of the managers giving a conditional apology…..which wasn’t an apology and justified their actions as a fear for their players safety.

Never had a game abandoned and not sure what happens next. I filled the whole game system and the full time system and marked the report for attention.

Not sure of the level but unless there is some kind of appeal that requires you to give evidence you’ll likely not hear much about this again personally.

It’ll be dealt with by the CFA and in your situation I’d consider asking not to ref them again to avoid the hassle

 

[Ori]

Not sure of the level but unless there is some kind of appeal that requires you to give evidence you’ll likely not hear much about this again personally.

It’ll be dealt with by the CFA and in your situation I’d consider asking not to ref them again to avoid the hassle

It’s an u18 game and I’m only level 7 so nothing high up. This team won’t exists next season anyway.

Just to add. The players were some of the worst I’ve reffed this season for complaining and demanding every decision. Standard kick the ball out and claim it’s theirs.

 

[Gabriel]

Before the swearing, I would have done the manager at coming onto the pitch to demand I go to him. I reckon that would be an easy sell as a RC for the following from Law 12:

• entering the field of play to:
  • confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)
  • interfere with play, an opposing player or a match official

More specifically the last one. Or at least a YC for dissent. This is just my opinion! The only thing I could say other than this is well done on not giving in to his demand. You are the ref, he is not. End of.

 

[Ori]

Is it a red card for entering the field of play or a yellow card?

I just waived him away, but then demanding that I come over to speak to him or he will remove his player? wasn’t having that.

 

[Gabriel]

Is it a red card for entering the field of play or a yellow card?

For the offences I copied and pasted from Law 12 for exact wording, red.
For this one:

• entering the field of play in a respectful/non-confrontational manner

warning.
No offences directly linked to entering the FOP are mentioned under team officials cautions, so if you wanted to caution you would have to decide which of the following was best to try and sell:

• clearly/persistently not respecting the confines of their team’s technical area
• dissent by word or action including:
  • throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects
  • action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping
• acting in a provocative or inflammatory manner
• persistent unacceptable behaviour (including repeated warning offences)
• showing a lack of respect for the game

So plenty of options.

I just waived him away, but then demanding that I come over to speak to him or he will remove his player? wasn’t having that.

No, I wouldn't. My response would essentially tell him to do just that in a calm way because I'm not speaking to him. If I'm forced to speak to him because of the subsequent actions, it would be to inform him he has been dismissed.

 

[Jed]

It’s an u18 game and I’m only level 7 so nothing high up. This team won’t exists next season anyway.

Just to add. The players were some of the worst I’ve reffed this season for complaining and demanding every decision. Standard kick the ball out and claim it’s theirs.

Some players just have moaning and complaining naturally in them. Yesterday I had an example, manager was moaning abt everything that he could, it was getting annoying but he never took it over the line and everything he appealed for he had the right to bare one or two things that I let slide as it near the end and his team were heavily lossing, but at the end he called me a quality ref and generally meant it. It just shows once they are in game mode moaning may happen naturally without them trying but it’s after the game when you actually see what they thought as you as a ref. Imo it is only worth challenging if they are getting in your face and moaning about stupid things that are clear and obvious, or start acting threatening

 

[Ori]

Some players just have moaning and complaining naturally in them. Yesterday I had an example, manager was moaning abt everything that he could, it was getting annoying but he never took it over the line and everything he appealed for he had the right to bare one or two things that I let slide as it near the end and his team were heavily lossing, but at the end he called me a quality ref and generally meant it. It just shows once they are in game mode moaning may happen naturally without them trying but it’s after the game when you actually see what they thought as you as a ref. Imo it is only worth challenging if they are getting in your face and moaning about stupid things that are clear and obvious, or start acting threatening

It’s lovely when managers compliment you.
Recently had both managers say I was the best ref they’ve had all season. Really made my weekend!

Last weekend I was in charge of the a girls u16 last match of the season.
With 2 minutes to go, one of the girls in frustration kicked the ball away. Easy booking, but I chose not to book and took her aside and had a chat and explained that it is a clear booking and that it’s a stupid thing to get a fine for isn’t it? She apologised and at that point, the parents of the other team gave me a round of applause and said thank you for showing common sense.
I’m sure some people on here will tell me off for not issuing the card, but u16 I try and teach.

 

[Gabriel]

Last weekend I was in charge of the a girls u16 last match of the season.
With 2 minutes to go, one of the girls in frustration kicked the ball away. Easy booking, but I chose not to book and took her aside and had a chat and explained that it is a clear booking and that it’s a stupid thing to get a fine for isn’t it? She apologised and at that point, the parents of the other team gave me a round of applause and said thank you for showing common sense.
I’m sure some people on here will tell me off for not issuing the card, but u16 I try and teach.

In all fairness, at U16 I probably would still caution as they are old enough at this point BUT I would have the chat first to diffuse the situation as much as possible.

 

[Ori]

In all fairness, at U16 I probably would still caution as they are old enough at this point BUT I would have the chat first to diffuse the situation as much as possible.

I usually do, but judged the situation and the game. Also she didn’t lamp the ball away. Just a little kick away. 2 minutes to go in their last game of the season. I’m doing the youth finals next weekend and I wouldn’t be so forgiving in that.

 

[Gabriel]

I usually do, but judged the situation and the game. Also she didn’t lamp the ball away. Just a little kick away. 2 minutes to go in their last game of the season. I’m doing the youth finals next weekend and I wouldn’t be so forgiving in that.

Just a little kick with 2 mins left changes everything. I didn't know that beforehand. In this situation, card would not come out. Congrats on youth finals! I missed out on mine due to having to pull out because of having GCSE's both days surrounding them so thought getting grades would be more important as I only get one shot at that, compared to finals happening every season!

 

[Ori]

Just a little kick with 2 mins left changes everything. I didn't know that beforehand. In this situation, card would not come out. Congrats on youth finals! I missed out on mine due to having to pull out because of having GCSE's both days surrounding them so thought getting grades would be more important as I only get one shot at that, compared to finals happening every season!

What kind of attitude is that? Drop the GCSEs and get reffing!

 

[OldNavyRef]

Hey @Ori

Having read your opening post. It just looks like the classic death by a thousand cuts (dissents).

Had you issued any sin bins or cautions this game before the flashpoint.

As you mentioned the team is the worst attitude wise you have refereed this season and the players were demanding a card, which is in fact a card for them.

Showing a caution to the player demanding the card might have diffused the whole situation. But you allowed things to escalate from there (I wasn't there so don't take this personally, just going on what you have written).

Then you didn't take action on the manager entering the field to give you dissent. This might have just been a classic case of by the time you take action it is already too late.

As you mentioned with the U16s game, where you choose not to caution for delaying the restart. It can feel good not to caution and sometimes it works and you look like a hero (parents applauding and saying you're the best ref).

The issue is some games require a rigid approach, and the laws applied consistently and fairly.

But good job on looking back and hopefully you take some positives away.

 

[Gabriel]

What kind of attitude is that? Drop the GCSEs and get reffing!

the day after they finish I've already been given 5 youth games at a tournament, followed by 3 tournaments a few weeks later! No need to worry, I'm not going anywhere!

 

[Ori]

Hey @Ori

Having read your opening post. It just looks like the classic death by a thousand cuts (dissents).

Had you issued any sin bins or cautions this game before the flashpoint.

As you mentioned the team is the worst attitude wise you have refereed this season and the players were demanding a card, which is in fact a card for them.

Showing a caution to the player demanding the card might have diffused the whole situation. But you allowed things to escalate from there (I wasn't there so don't take this personally, just going on what you have written).

Then you didn't take action on the manager entering the field to give you dissent. This might have just been a classic case of by the time you take action it is already too late.

As you mentioned with the U16s game, where you choose not to caution for delaying the restart. It can feel good not to caution and sometimes it works and you look like a hero (parents applauding and saying you're the best ref).

The issue is some games require a rigid approach, and the laws applied consistently and fairly.

But good job on looking back and hopefully you take some positives away.

Good points.

I will clarify. The game didn’t have a bad tackle. The attitude of the players was just constantly demanding decisions. The last bit of demanding a yellow card I couldn’t deal with as the manager was already on the pitch demanding my attention and I was dealing with that.

This was an u18 boys game and it was physical, but not aggressive. It was actually a really good game. I suspect the manager pulled his players as an excuse for being 5-1 down and a way to show he is in charge.
Had he not pulled his players, I would have issued a yellow for entering the field of play, but he took it further before I got anywhere near him. I was by the goal at the time.

I learn from every game though.

 

[OldNavyRef]

Good points.

I will clarify. The game didn’t have a bad tackle. The attitude of the players was just constantly demanding decisions. The last bit of demanding a yellow card I couldn’t deal with as the manager was already on the pitch demanding my attention and I was dealing with that.

This was an u18 boys game and it was physical, but not aggressive. It was actually a really good game. I suspect the manager pulled his players as an excuse for being 5-1 down and a way to show he is in charge.
Had he not pulled his players, I would have issued a yellow for entering the field of play, but he took it further before I got anywhere near him. I was by the goal at the time.

I learn from every game though.

I can assure you if he was winning it would have been very different hahaa

But he used you missing whatever foolery was done to his keeper as his excuse for a loss. Probably that coupled with his perception of you not having control caused him to act out.

Quick reminder to try and always keep your eye on the ball and the players near it best you can during heated situations as that is most likely going to be where the flashpoint comes from, but that is difficult without neutral assistants.

Still good just not capitulating to him. Just give him the red, make your report and leave him to deal with the fallout.

 

[santa sangria]

Good points.

I will clarify. The game didn’t have a bad tackle. The attitude of the players was just constantly demanding decisions. The last bit of demanding a yellow card I couldn’t deal with as the manager was already on the pitch demanding my attention and I was dealing with that.

This was an u18 boys game and it was physical, but not aggressive. It was actually a really good game. I suspect the manager pulled his players as an excuse for being 5-1 down and a way to show he is in charge.
Had he not pulled his players, I would have issued a yellow for entering the field of play, but he took it further before I got anywhere near him. I was by the goal at the time.

I learn from every game though.

I hear you. Forget the outcome of this game for a moment and think about what could of gone differently early in the match.

Were you communicating your non-decisions: “I saw that”, “tiny contact, carry on”, “not enough for me”…

If you communicate your non-decisions then players have little reason to whinge - you’ve already told them!

Did you have any quiet words with the problem players: “remember, try to play the ball”, “careful with the arms”…

This stuff shows all the players you are in the game and noticing “everything”.

You might also find that a small veiled compliment here and there can be useful - but use with caution! - “good save” (great to sell a corner), “good idea” (the flair player just overhit it), “good action guys” (the long move ended with a crunching tackle). As said, careful, but you can find ways to indirectly communicate with problem players proactively

 

[Peter Grove]

Had he not pulled his players, I would have issued a yellow for entering the field of play, but he took it further before I got anywhere near him. I was by the goal at the time.

As pointed out by @Gabriel above, there's no yellow card for a team official entering the field of play - it's either a warning or a red card.

If you wanted it to be a yellow card it would have to be for one of the other listed offences such as dissent but then you would be ignoring the whole entering the field of play bit.

 

[Ori]

Some good advice that I will take with me forward.

I usually compliment players with good save and great tackle. I do have quiet words with players about many things. In this game I warned the defender for his arms usage as it was about to cross a line on fouls.

 

[Gabriel]

In this game I warned the defender for his arms usage as it was about to cross a line on fouls

Defenders quite often don't like to told they can't use their arms . That's why, like you, I try and have a quiet word about this before I start giving fouls whenever it happens.