The Ref Stop

JAM ITA penalty mess

es1 said:
without spectators, football is nothing. the authorities would do well to recognise that in many aspects of the 'fan experience' and VAR is one of them
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Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
 
The Ref Stop
Yampy said:
Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
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we're talking about VAR here and the pro game, dont see VAR down the parks
 
Yampy said:
Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
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But VAR is not being implemented in games played in front of next to no spectators, hence the concern about how it will affect the spectators' experience is a valid one.
 
Bromleyref said:
I also think the system used in the FA Cup (VAR makes the call rather than referee reviewing on a monitor) works far better.
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That was not "the system used in the FA Cup." The FA Cup used the same VAR Protocol that is, and must be used in all competitions worldwide. If they didn't, they would never have been granted permission by the IFAB to use VAR in the first place. Under that single and universal protocol the VAR cannot make any decision, they can only pass on information to the referee.
 
forgive me if i'm not understanding the protocol correctly, but wolves v man united, ref overturned his red card with a yellow on VAR advice without consulting the video. this is against IFAB protocol isn't it?
 
Peter Grove said:
That was not "the system used in the FA Cup." The FA Cup used the same VAR Protocol that is, and must be used in all competitions worldwide. If they didn't, they would never have been granted permission by the IFAB to use VAR in the first place. Under that single and universal protocol the VAR cannot make any decision, they can only pass on information to the referee.
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Crystal Palace v Grimsby third round, Martin Atkinson cautions a Grimsby player for a challenge and then following consultation with VAR sends the player off.

Irrespective of the technicalities (regarding what was said between the officials etc) I fail to see how that is not the VAR effectively making the decision.
 
es1 said:
forgive me if i'm not understanding the protocol correctly, but wolves v man united, ref overturned his red card with a yellow on VAR advice without consulting the video. this is against IFAB protocol isn't it?
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No. But it would be against recommended process if I recall correctly
 
QuaverRef said:
It’s happened again, but this time seemingly incorrectly! France v Nigeria last night

Penalty taker hits the post and it’s retaken as the keeper came off the line. However, the striker missed without keeper intervention
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You think so? To drive the point, if the keeper comes out 6 yards to close the angle and the striker goes wide without keeper touching the ball, would you call the a miss without keeper intervention?
 
one said:
No. But it would be against recommended process if I recall correctly
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The protocol does give a little leeway in not doing an on field review.

For subjective decisions, e.g. intensity of a foul challenge, interference at
offside, handball considerations, an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) is often
appropriate
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I suppose this opens up situations where the referee could give a yellow card and tell the VAR that they saw the studs go into the foot. The VAR says "actually the studs went into the middle of the shin" and the referee says "okay, then it's a red card" and change the decision without looking at the monitor.

But this supposed FA Cup/Premier League method of never having an on field review does not match up with the protocol and would almost certainly lead to issues. There will be situations where the referee will simply want to see the video.
 
one said:
You think so? To drive the point, if the keeper comes out 6 yards to close the angle and the striker goes wide without keeper touching the ball, would you call the a miss without keeper intervention?
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That didn’t happen though. This was barely an inch off the line
 
Bromleyref said:
Crystal Palace v Grimsby third round, Martin Atkinson cautions a Grimsby player for a challenge and then following consultation with VAR sends the player off.

Irrespective of the technicalities (regarding what was said between the officials etc) I fail to see how that is not the VAR effectively making the decision.
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There is a massive difference between VAR making the decision and VAR telling the referee that they think the challenge was worthy of a red because of X y z and the referee deciding to upgrade to a red card based on the information provided by VAR.
 
es1 said:
i dont like the review, but it's 100% correct. i just wonder where you draw the line...will every pen be analysed in microscopic detail like offsides to determine encroachment / keeper off line?
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That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.

same with encroachment from free kicks?
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Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
 
cwyeary said:
That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.



Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
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VAR does not rule out anything, they inform the infield referee, and they make the decision.
 
cwyeary said:
That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.



Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
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if it encourages keepers to stick to the rules, great, cant see that being a bad thing long term. the next keeper facing a pen in the world cup would be a fool to come of their line.

i'd like to see this enforced in the U21 euros as well then, really hammer it home even though there's no VAR. i wont hold me breath though
 
cwyeary said:
Yes I'm aware. Apologies for the lack of perfectly precise language.
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It's not about being "perfectly precise" it is about being factually correct.

By saying that VAR rules out goals etc you are giving them powers which they do not possess under the current laws, and perpetuating the inaccuracies that surround the entire process.
 
I thin VAR should just use the big screen (where available) to review decisions.

It works very well in rugby, and then everyone can see what the referee is seeing. It wod add anymore time time into the process than the referee going to a monitor at the side of the pitch.
 
QuaverRef said:
That didn’t happen though. This was barely an inch off the line
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What if it was 6 inches or a foot? One yard? Two yards? Where do you draw the line? For me it's simple. The goal line IS the line.

"It was barely..." Is what has got us to this mess we are in right now with encroachments.
 
one said:
What if it was 6 inches or a foot? One yard? Two yards? Where do you draw the line? For me it's simple. The goal line IS the line.

"It was barely..." Is what has got us to this mess we are in right now with encroachments.
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The same thing with offside. Can we tell if the player was in an offside position? Yes or no. If the answer is yes then an inch, a foot, or a yard doesn't matter. Once you try to start applying a subjective standard you will have even more issues.
 
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