A&H

Is this substitution completed?

J

Jack M

Active Member
Level 6 Referee
I was refereeing at a local tournament in Essex run by a local youth team. Anyway, me and a friend were watching the 2 semi finals going on as we were refereeing the finals. Whilst watching a bit of the U9 semi-final, the Blues were winning 1-0 with a few seconds remaining and are making a substitution. One player leaves the field and the new player comes on. The referee restarts the game and the Clarets score to equalize. The Blues manager came storming onto the pitch and stood over the ref, who was fresh of the course at 14, and started saying that they were still making a sub. The ref then disallowed the goal under pressure from the bloke, the Clarets walked off the pitch to the sideline and the Senior Ref of the tournament stepped in and tried to sort the situation out. The young ref left the tournament immediately by his own free will and the Senior ref took over. The 2 managers called it 1-1 and the Blues lost on pens.

The argument was that the Blues player had come onto the pitch but was still messing about with his shirt when the ref restarted the match. In my opinion, as soon as the player enters the field and takes his position, the substitution is completed as he should sort his shirt out before he comes on. What is everyone's view on this?
 
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It's U9s mini soccer for God's sake! I wish adults in charge of these teams would grow up.

I sincerely hope that young lad comes back to game and develops into a fine ref. He's already be a better referee than that Blues manager will ever be a coach.
 
Agreed, the substitution is complete when he enters the FOP.

If not properly dressed that is the managers' fault for not checking before asking for the substitution. As Supply League, I have seen and recommended that players nor being allowed on if not properly ready but the substituted has already left the FOP, so they are playing with 10 until the next stoppage.

Managers need to take responsibility some times.... (unlike those in the Premier League).
Ensure that somebody speaks with the young referee - losing a ref for something like this is the worst of all.
 
The Senior Referee who sent him to the tent to wait in went back to see if he was ok and he had already left
 
lincs22 said:
Agreed, the substitution is complete when he enters the FOP.
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Agreed with this, but not with this :

lincs22 said:
If not properly dressed that is the managers' fault for not checking before asking for the substitution.
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I always say to the managers before the game that it's useless to ask me or my assistant (if NARs) for a substitute if the player isn't completely ready and waiting by the half way line

BUT

It's YOUR job as the referee to check the equipment of the player who's gonna enter the FOP, one of the requirement is shirt in the short, so in this situation, the player should have never enter the FOP before he was done with his shirt
 
Yacinho said:
one of the requirement is shirt in the short, so in this situation, the player should have never enter the FOP before he was done with his shirt
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Erm... Not a requirement by the Laws. Hasn't been for a number of years now.
 
AlexF said:
Erm... Not a requirement by the Laws. Hasn't been for a number of years now.
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I still see every substitute doing it before entering the FOP
Not important anyway, the principle stands, if the player isn't ready, the referee shouldn't allow the substitute
 
Yacinho said:
I still see every substitute doing it before entering the FOP
Not important anyway, the principle stands, if the player isn't ready, the referee shouldn't allow the substitute
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Agree. If the sub is still doing his boots up, he has to wait until the ball is next oop.
 
As an add on to this topic, at what point do you personally signal restart of play after a substitution? After the player has (properly) entered the field I usually keen an eye on him/her and allow a few seconds to take up their tactical position.
 
don't allow substitutions - tell them if you have to do the full 90 then so do they! that'll confuse the hell out of them! haha

na, all serious, the manager is in the wrong for

a. sub complete, play on
b. walking onto the pitch
c. abusing the referee
d. being a complete and utter c**t
 
Being proactive could have avoided this. mark the sub off in the book, ask him where's he's playing, let him get in, get a thumbs up/acknowledgement from him/her, restart the game.

Hopefully the new referee will come back. Hard lesson to learn.
 
I had a similar problem with this last season.
U15 red v white. At a period in the game both managers seemed to be making a sub ever other stoppage, it was getting a bit tedious, then ball goes out for a white throw in, reds make a sub, I stop concentrating and I wait for the red player to leave the pitch and the sub enters the pitch and I restart.
Next thing I know a long throw comes in to the opposite side of the field where a striker is unmarked and heads it home to make the score 2-2. Cue screaming from the managers and players that their left back wasn't t in position from the sub. Was I wrong in law, technically no the sub was complete, did I do the wrong thing? Yes, so I apologised profusely and everyone seemed to accept it from then on. Luckily reds made it 3-2 so I didn't cost them the game ;)

The thing I learned from the situation, in junior football or with any rolling subs game, ask the manager to give you a thumbs up when he's happy, especially when they make multiple subs from both teams.
Take your time and only restart when you are ready and happy everyone is set and in position.
 
Jack M said:
The argument was that the Blues player had come onto the pitch but was still messing about with his shirt when the ref restarted the match. In my opinion, as soon as the player enters the field and takes his position, the substitution is completed as he should sort his shirt out before he comes on. What is everyone's view on this?
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He can't take the field without complying with Law 4. If he wants to adjust his shirt once he's on that's his problem, but he needs to at least be wearing one. What a strange complaint.

OIREF! said:
As an add on to this topic, at what point do you personally signal restart of play after a substitution? After the player has (properly) entered the field I usually keen an eye on him/her and allow a few seconds to take up their tactical position.
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If I'm playing stoppage time I'll wait for them to get into position. There's absolutely no reason not to.
I play a lot of games which have a strict instruction not to play stoppage. In that case...Depends a bit on what mood I'm in and what situation the sub is. Want to sub at a corner? I'm not waiting. Subbing when play is around the middle of the field? It's going to take all of 3 seconds to get him into position.

'When in Rome' though. If it's convention in your area to wait, then do so. If they're doing a ridiculous number of subs, or it's clearly a delaying tactic, then I'd start getting quicker on the whistle.

I increasingly find myself not waiting at all though. Puts it back on the managers to make sure they sub at the right time. There just isn't enough time.
 
The local FA is issuing those instructions. Reason? No time.
Games would run from 8am to 5pm (run out of light then) with 0-10 minutes between games (and given all the stuff you have to do between games....)

Even where I refereed more recently, the schedule wasn't that tight, but if the reserves grade played any stoppage that would push first grade back, and doing anything to jeopardize the amount of time the first grade referee had to prepare with his AR's was a big no-no.

The first case was applied more stringently than the second though.
 
When a substitute enters the field of play as far as i am concerned he is ready,willing and able to play... and he should be running to get into position, in a U9 tournament though, i would have waited a few extra seconds to make sure substitution is complete (especially if more than one player is being subbed).......
 
It was just the one substitution. He had run into position and was just messing about with his shirt
 
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