A&H

Interesting incident

S

Standard

New Member
U14 game - 10 minutes to go no problems for the whole game.
After giving a penalty, I send player off for OFFINABUS after reacting to my decision. He leaves the pitch, but just before the restart with the PK, I scan the box and see he has re-entered the pitch, and is standing on the edge of the D. At this stage I remind him of my decision and order him to leave the surrounding area of the FOP. All 3 coaches refuse saying he’s a minor and take him to the ‘pop up bench’ and sit him down. I continue with the game.

At this stage, should I have considering abandoning due to coach refusing to take player away and allowing him to return to FOP?
 
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Personally, I'd take into consideration that they're 13/14 years old and say as long as he is off the pitch and doesn't take any further part I'm happy where ever he is.
Its uncommon for teams to have "pop up benches".
Most teams, even open age groups, don't have these and just go stand on the side line and watch out the remainder of the game.
 
Standard said:
U14 game - 10 minutes to go no problems for the whole game.
After giving a penalty, I send player off for OFFINABUS after reacting to my decision. He leaves the pitch, but just before the restart with the PK, I scan the box and see he has re-entered the pitch, and is standing on the edge of the D. At this stage I remind him of my decision and order him to leave the surrounding area of the FOP. All 3 coaches refuse saying he’s a minor and take him to the ‘pop up bench’ and sit him down. I continue with the game.

At this stage, should I have considering abandoning due to coach refusing to take player away and allowing him to return to FOP?
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Absolutely correct to consider abandoning (or at the very least reporting for non-compliance). Procedure here is very clear. Dismissed players must leave the field of play and immediate surroundings (with no mitigation made for age group football). The club, I would suggest, is failing to control its players and team officials in this instance.

No safeguarding issue exists, because one manager could ensure the player is safe away from the immediate surroundings of the field of play.
 
Joe Harrison said:
Absolutely correct to consider abandoning (or at the very least reporting for non-compliance). Procedure here is very clear. Dismissed players must leave the field of play and immediate surroundings (with no mitigation made for age group football). The club, I would suggest, is failing to control its players and team officials in this instance.

No safeguarding issue exists, because one manager could ensure the player is safe away from the immediate surroundings of the field of play.
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I thought so - although I didn’t abandon, I have reported for failure to control player, with him returning to FOP and then for the coaches non compliance
 
Joe Harrison said:
Absolutely correct to consider abandoning (or at the very least reporting for non-compliance). Procedure here is very clear. Dismissed players must leave the field of play and immediate surroundings (with no mitigation made for age group football). The club, I would suggest, is failing to control its players and team officials in this instance.

No safeguarding issue exists, because one manager could ensure the player is safe away from the immediate surroundings of the field of play.
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What you are suggesting is against the child protection act where I am
One adult is not permitted to do this, it needs be two.
Updated child protection law mandates a juvenile can remain pitchside and any future misconduct is reported

allowing, far less encouraging one coach to take away one player is a no go
 
Anubis said:
What you are suggesting is against the child protection act where I am
One adult is not permitted to do this, it needs be two.
Updated child protection law mandates a juvenile can remain pitchside and any future misconduct is reported

allowing, far less encouraging one coach to take away one player is a no go
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Didn’t know that existed, even so, returning to the pitch after dismissal and then staying pitchside gives potential for him to continue doing so, at which point it becomes more difficult to police
 
Standard said:
Didn’t know that existed, even so, returning to the pitch after dismissal and then staying pitchside gives potential for him to continue doing so, at which point it becomes more difficult to police
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you simply report any further misconduct

you absolutely do not encourage one adult to tske one child into a chsngimg room
Am sure its not difficult to work out why.

given the choice of the kid misbehaving pitchside or potentially beimg molested behind closed doors i know which one i find easier to police

where i am its a requirment to do a child protrction course, its not an option.
 
Anubis said:
What you are suggesting is against the child protection act where I am
One adult is not permitted to do this, it needs be two.
Updated child protection law mandates a juvenile can remain pitchside and any future misconduct is reported

allowing, far less encouraging one coach to take away one player is a no go
Click to expand...

In the OP, the sending off offence is OFFINABUS (against a match official). I am not aware of any guidance (at least in England) that states we as referees need to allow a junior player to remain in such circumstances (appreciate it will vary across locations though).
 
Anubis said:
you simply report any further misconduct

you absolutely do not encourage one adult to tske one child into a chsngimg room
Am sure its not difficult to work out why.

given the choice of the kid misbehaving pitchside or potentially beimg molested behind closed doors i know which one i find easier to police
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There were no changing rooms, I was just asking him to take him away from the pitch (this was a public park), even so, surely a DBS check has some waivering for the child protection act.
I know plenty of teams that have one coach, so surely no team should ever be allowed in the changing rooms with one adult present? How does that work?
 
Standard said:
There were no changing rooms, I was just asking him to take him away from the pitch (this was a public park), even so, surely a DBS check has some waivering for the child protection act.
I know plenty of teams that have one coach, so surely no team should ever be allowed in the changing rooms with one adult present? How does that work?
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a team with one adult is not the same as one child and one adult
you can have two kids one adult
two adults one kid
but not one adult one kid
 
Anubis said:
a team with one adult is not the same as one child and one adult
you can have two kids one adult
two adults one kid
but not one adult one kid
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So what happens when all the players jog out of the changing rooms, but one player is left and the adult is present. What you are saying is utter nonsense. A dbs checked adult is allowed alone with a child. What happens at schools for example etc.
 
Standard said:
So what happens when all the players jog out of the changing rooms, but one player is left and the adult is present. What you are saying is utter nonsense. A dbs checked adult is allowed alone with a child. What happens at schools for example etc.
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Lets agree to disagree.
 
Standard said:
So what happens when all the players jog out of the changing rooms, but one player is left and the adult is present. What you are saying is utter nonsense. A dbs checked adult is allowed alone with a child. What happens at schools for example etc.
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I don't think Anibus is based in England, and having refereed in multiple countries, I can testify to the fact that different conventions and protocols apply.

However, from a FA (England) mentoring point of view, I would advise against allowing a player who has committed a sending off offence (against a match official) to remain on the touchline (regardless of age).

If the player (or his management on his behalf) refuses to go (citing safeguarding concerns) the best course of action is to abandon the game.
 
Joe Harrison said:
I don't think Anibus is based in England, and having refereed in multiple countries, I can testify to the fact that different conventions and protocols apply.

However, from a FA (England) mentoring point of view, I would advise against allowing a player who has committed a sending off offence (against a match official) to remain on the touchline (regardless of age).

If the player (or his management) refuses to go (citing safeguarding concerns) the best course of action is to abandon the game.
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agreed
 
It all depends on circumstances. The team needs to have two DBS compliant coaches there to meet child protection guidelines. If you send the sent off player away, and his or her parents aren't there, you are in effect removing one of the coaches from the game as obviously someone has to remain with the child.

If there is then an allegation made against the remaining coach you could potentially be accused of causing, or at least contributing to that problem. At adult levels then absolutely insist they can't stay pitch side, but there needs to be a level of common sense at youth football.
 
It's youth football.
It is not best practise for an adult to be alone with a child.. DBS or no.
That's why the FA guidance when working in a three and one is U18 then the ref should pick adult up 1st so there are two.
I wouldnt be abandoning a game for this. Tell coach being reported for red card. Further report for coming back on to field. Of play and anymore could lead to abandonment.
 
RustyRef said:
It all depends on circumstances. The team needs to have two DBS compliant coaches there to meet child protection guidelines. If you send the sent off player away, and his or her parents aren't there, you are in effect removing one of the coaches from the game as obviously someone has to remain with the child.

If there is then an allegation made against the remaining coach you could potentially be accused of causing, or at least contributing to that problem. At adult levels then absolutely insist they can't stay pitch side, but there needs to be a level of common sense at youth football.
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JamesL said:
It's youth football.
It is not best practise for an adult to be alone with a child.. DBS or no.
That's why the FA guidance when working in a three and one is U18 then the ref should pick adult up 1st so there are two.
I wouldnt be abandoning a game for this. Tell coach being reported for red card. Further report for coming back on to field. Of play and anymore could lead to abandonment.
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Whilst I agree with these sentiments in the most part, I think particular emphasis should be given, as Rusty highlighted, to the circumstances.

For example, I wouldn’t be considering abandoning for a second, for two yellows in these circumstances, especially if they were technical offences etc. The player could happily sit on the sidelines for me.

However, the OP was OFFINABUS against a match official. Given the acute shortage of match officials we currently face, especially at grassroots, I wouldn’t be encouraging any of my mentees to be making exceptions in such circumstances in trying to keep the game going as the likelihood of further abuse is likely to be high (as we all probably know). The coaches in this scenario do not appear to be particularly agreeable either and as such I would encourage my mentees to present a binary choice to this team (player disappears or match abandoned).
 
I'm on the other side of the pond, so some different expectations, so take with that grain of salt. I doubt I would be at the point of abandoning based on what is written here. Absolutely report the re-entry along with the send-off. And absolutely make clear to the coach that the coach is responsible for the sent off player and that any further problems will result in abandoning the game. And absolutely have a short leash with that coach regarding any push-back about anything to do with the player.
 
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