A&H

Junior/Youth Incidents today

J

Josh the referee

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Had 2 games today and just sort of reflecting back on some incidents.

First game, player sin-binned within 15 mins for asking me "how much are they paying you ref" after a free-kick decision. Funny thing was I had a league rep come and watch that game and he was like I don't know what they're moaning about.

Caution later on for a reckless challenge, think it was more frustration as they were 10-0 down.

Second game was awful. Felt like the away team had it out for me from minute one for some unknown reason.

CB sin-binned in the 7th minute for shouting that I'm "f***ing sh*t". Home Team score 2 goals while he's in the sin-bin. First goal there were no issues, blamed on me because he's in the sin-bin. Second goal to me isn't a foul. Home player basically wins the ball back inside the 6 yard box, don't think there's a lot of contact if any with the player. Away player almost makes a superman dive to in my opinion to try and win a free-kick but I'm not easily fooled (😎). Goal given.

Coach sent off in the 15th minute for coming a good 5/10 yards on the pitch and shouting "are we playing against 12 men?". He doesn't leave straight away and it takes I would say a good 20/30 seconds for him to begin to make his way away from the game. Game does begin to calm down a little so I do think the red in some aspects worked.

No dramas until the last couple minutes of the game. Same player calls me "f***ing sh*t" once again after I give such an easy free-kick as well, player shoved in the back. It seemed so blatantly obvious.

As he's walking off, he turns around and calls me a "f***ing idiot". And I'm like that's got a little bit more personal now, so I send him off for offinabus.

Full-Time whistle goes and a massive sigh of relief. Get approached by the other coach who remained without a sanction, looking back he probably too should've been sent off but I think I bottled that a little bit. It happens and I've once again learnt from another hard incident to manage. Coach basically says I ruined the game and he just got cut off by the Home Team coach and just told to basically go away.

I genuinely believe that some coaches have an agenda against young referees, especially in youth football.

Not sure if anyone has any advice for me or tips for dealing with shutting up mouthy coaches?
 
The Referee Store
Honestly, nothing you can do better. There's a horrific expectation that young refs won't card, and as a result there's a free pass to behave however you please.

Well done for showing them it's not the case, well done for standing your ground and well done for sending them packing. All positives.

I'd agree with James, Karl Henry might not have sparked new ideas, but it's potentially led to people being more open in their expression of attitudes to young officials.

I know a friend of mine did two games where the kids weren't even teens earlier today. Sent multiple managers off for OFFINABUS, and was threatened etc. Shocking behaviour at the best, but even worse in front of kids.

Keep it up
 
Teams are awful when the are losing in the double digits. They normally stop playing any meaningful football and resort to kicking lumps out of the better side, and bully the ref.

Just take it on the chin, a lot of lessons to be learnt, that you can apply in the future.

The only thing I can see is your first sin bin.

You issued a sin bin or possibly two, in response to "your f***ing sh*t" and "how much are they paying you ref". These are quite over the top and could/should of been red for OFFINABUS, this early but firm stance may have prevented others from trying to squeeze you that little more (maybe).

It can be difficult to want to dish out a red for OFFINABUS on minute 7, but sometimes they earn it.
 
Josh the referee said:
First game, player sin-binned within 15 mins for asking me "how much are they paying you ref" after a free-kick decision.
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Respect your decision on the day, but genuinely curious on what others think. This to me, is accusing me of corruption/being a cheat, and I always go Red is that situation; no hesitation. Am I overthinking this?
 
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zonknz said:
Respect your decision on the day, but genuinely curious on what others think. This to me, is accusing me of corruption/being a cheat, and I always go Red is that situation; no hesitation. Am I overthinking this?
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Comments like this (accusations of bias without actually using the word "cheat") leave referees a complete choice of options in response, barring just ignoring them which is a terrible idea.

Red is definitely justifiable (most likely the 'insulting' part of OFFINABUS). Yellow / Sin Bin works if it's clearly in response to a specific decision. Equally an immediate massive public b*llocking could nip it in the bud. Or, if you're feeling confident, treating them with the disdain they deserve ......

'How much are they paying you ref' --> "Not enough to care about the result of this game"
'Should be wearing a Blue shirt' --> "Nah, Black's more flattering"
'We're against 12 today lads' --> "Looks to me like you'd struggle against 10"

:)
 
Russell Jones said:
Comments like this (accusations of bias without actually using the word "cheat") leave referees a complete choice of options in response, barring just ignoring them which is a terrible idea.

Red is definitely justifiable (most likely the 'insulting' part of OFFINABUS). Yellow / Sin Bin works if it's clearly in response to a specific decision. Equally an immediate massive public b*llocking could nip it in the bud. Or, if you're feeling confident, treating them with the disdain they deserve ......

'How much are they paying you ref' --> "Not enough to care about the result of this game"
'Should be wearing a Blue shirt' --> "Nah, Black's more flattering"
'We're against 12 today lads' --> "Looks to me like you'd struggle against 10"

:)
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You're a bad influence! If I can remember them at the time (which is highly unlikely), I'm using those lines 😂
 
zonknz said:
Respect your decision on the day, but genuinely curious on what others think. This to me, is accusing me of corruption/being a cheat, and I always go Red is that situation; no hesitation. Am I overthinking this?
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It was so early on, over what was one of the easiest free-kick decisions in my life 🤣

It was a fairly big clash, both teams were flying in the league and I certainly wasn't expecting such a massive scoreline.

Fixture had a little bit of history apparently, so that itself had warranted a league official to come and watch. He backed me on both the sin-bin and free-kick decision as well.

I think potentially a red may have spoilt a big game but I can completely see others arguments. Sometimes I think you have to manage the occasion as well as the game. After he got sin-binned, it worked as he didn't make barely any comments the rest of the game.
 
Josh the referee said:
It was so early on, over what was one of the easiest free-kick decisions in my life 🤣

It was a fairly big clash, both teams were flying in the league and I certainly wasn't expecting such a massive scoreline.

Fixture had a little bit of history apparently, so that itself had warranted a league official to come and watch. He backed me on both the sin-bin and free-kick decision as well.

I think potentially a red may have spoilt a big game but I can completely see others arguments. Sometimes I think you have to manage the occasion as well as the game. After he got sin-binned, it worked as he didn't make barely any comments the rest of the game.
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It would not have been the red card that "spoiled the game", it would have been the use of offensive and abusive language (which should have resulted in a red card, and that would have probably improved the game)
 
I’m probably one of the more lenient refs around on this front.

Implications of bias, (“how much are they paying you”, “playing against 12”) are more often than not a heavy public rebuke. Once I’ve done this, I’ve never had another player in the same game repeat anything of similar calibre.

The word ‘cheat’ itself is still hard pressed to earth a red card for me. It doesn’t scream out as being offensive to me, more just absolute f*cking stupid to believe I care about any outcome of the game besides a safe conclusion.

I think it’s one of the hardest red cards to sell in football. I would absolutely have no problem if other refs sent off for it, I’m not saying others are wrong, but I personally just prefer to have a crack at managing it in ways besides a straight red card 🤷‍♂️
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
It would not have been the red card that "spoiled the game", it would have been the use of offensive and abusive language (which should have resulted in a red card, and that would have probably improved the game)
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If you're referring to my OP, this incident was the first game which was much less eventful other than this incident. This one ended up being 11-0!!
 
george.g said:
I’m probably one of the more lenient refs around on this front.

Implications of bias, (“how much are they paying you”, “playing against 12”) are more often than not a heavy public rebuke. Once I’ve done this, I’ve never had another player in the same game repeat anything of similar calibre.

The word ‘cheat’ itself is still hard pressed to earth a red card for me. It doesn’t scream out as being offensive to me, more just absolute f*cking stupid to believe I care about any outcome of the game besides a safe conclusion.

I think it’s one of the hardest red cards to sell in football. I would absolutely have no problem if other refs sent off for it, I’m not saying others are wrong, but I personally just prefer to have a crack at managing it in ways besides a straight red card 🤷‍♂️
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This is a really important thing to raise I think. I may be a similarly lenient ref, but for me it isn't so much the word(s) used, it is the manner, tone and volume. Someone making a sly/stupid remark like that in passing is very different to someone else running 30 yards, screaming in your face and gesticulating wildly.
 
Martiju said:
This is a really important thing to raise I think. I may be a similarly lenient ref, but for me it isn't so much the word(s) used, it is the manner, tone and volume. Someone making a sly/stupid remark like that in passing is very different to someone else running 30 yards, screaming in your face and gesticulating wildly.
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Yeah and that's all it really was, he was stood almost next to me when I made the decision and he clearly just needed 8 mins in the sin-bin to cool down. Proof that the sin-bin worked in the first game! (2nd game it clearly didn't)
 
Josh the referee said:
I genuinely believe that some coaches have an agenda against young referees, especially in youth football.

Not sure if anyone has any advice for me or tips for dealing with shutting up mouthy coaches?
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Keep doing what you're doing Josh. I ref and coach youth football, only qualified for two years, and am learning with every match. You're clearly taking it seriously, reflecting on your performance/decisions, seeking feedback on here, so you're doing everything right imho.

As for youth football coaches, in my experience they're either great or awful when it comes to youth referees, with only a few occupying the middle ground. Vast majority I come across are in the former camp, but then that can make the difficult ones a challenge you're not used to.

What you appear to be doing which I like is not letting it go. Whatever our individual thresholds for dissent, you're not letting it go unchecked and are willing to use cards, which many youth referees are reluctant to do in my experience watching 100s of matches over the last five years or so.

The use of cards in U11/12 I still find challenging and I'm 50 and confident in my ability (at my level, I hasten to add!). The players, parents and coaches are so not used to it and tears often follow, sometimes immediately after the challenge and before you're even issuing any sanction.

As an example this weekend, I arrived for a game early and another (U11) match was going on. Keeper loses ball half way inside their half, player clean through so goalkeeper challenges awfully from behind - obvious SFP and DOGSO. Keeper bursts into tears and experienced, good adult ref issues no sanction at all. Match was virtually over timewise and game was apparently 4-0 - I'm not sat here saying I'd have done it (I'd like to think I would) but it highlights the issue of expectations at this age.

However, by the time they get to 11v11 I'm finding parents/coaches often grateful to sanctions. I've come to the conclusion, that many things with refereeing, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't!
 
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