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First Time as a Fourth Official

Discussion in 'Assistant Refereeing and Fourth Official' started by Galluzzo96, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Galluzzo96

    Galluzzo96 New Member Level 6 Referee

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    HI All,

    After 6 years of refereeing i have been selected as a fourth official for an U16 County Cup Final, do you have any tips or advice on how to get the best out of this role?
     
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  4. forest96

    forest96 Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Bring sweets for the managers!

    Don't be the referee's spin doctor by defending the indefensible - deal with the benches just like you would if you were senior AR, just with the added benefit of not having to run up and down.

    Keep a nice clear match record and deal with the substitutes fully (kit check etc). Depending upon the referees' pre-match instructions, the benchside AR might come down to give you a hand, especially if there are multiple substitutes coming on at once.

    Have a practice with the substitution board if you get one, before you go out - whilst the other three are warming up is a good time to do that.
     
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  5. Tino Best

    Tino Best Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Sorry didnt read your post properly I didnt see the fourth official bit so a completely wrong response from me. Never been one so I cant help but I will read posts more carefully. Good luck with your appointment
     
  6. OIREF!

    OIREF! Well-Known Member

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    Have a good read of LOTG to understand your responsibilities.
     
  7. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Depends on what the referee wants really, and to an extent what kind of venue the game is at. The biggest problem 4th officials tend to have is the game is at a ground with a technical area and the clubs playing don't normally have them. You can spend all game trying to stop them having more than two standing, or even worse from legging it off down the touchline. So find out what the referee wants in this respect.

    If you have a subs board then print out substitution cards (basically number on and number off), although you might need a lot if it is rolling subs. If you are managing several changes at once it can be very difficult to remember the numbers, so best to have them written down.

    Always have a spare ball ready, and make sure that you control it, not anyone else in the technical areas. Check all players coming on for kit problems, and do this before you get the referee's attention, and, crucially, never signal for the change until you are sure the player(s) coming on is ready.
     
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  8. Cheshire Ref

    Cheshire Ref Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Good advice here, in terms of the spare ball. Let the referee tell you if he wants it, he may want to use the ball out of play time to deal with or diffuse something and a quick ball back on the pitch may hinder this.

    When you need to get the ball on roll it to the nearest player and get him to kick it over, nothing worse than attempting to drop kick the ball across the pitch and making a right hash of it, you will however get the biggest cheer of the night!
     
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  9. CapnBloodbeard

    CapnBloodbeard Well-Known Member

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    Don't be a spectator. Be constantly scanning the field for off-the-ball problems, especially after a potential incident. Ref is following the ball, the AR's are following their defenders. If they all miss something, you should pick it up. Carry your full kit as always - and make sure you're paying attention to which players are doing what, same as you would as a referee - because if you come on you need to know exactly who's been warned, who's skating on thin ice, etc. Some people find being a 4th boring - IMO if you're finding it boring then you're probably not as actively engaged as you need to be.

    Keep a full record, but you probably want to be the last to write after the ref and AR's have. Don't forget at a sub you need to communicate to the AR for his signal - so if he's near halfway and you think a sub is going to happen soon, maybe give him the heads up, quietly.

    Use your rapport with the managers, especially for minor things, such as coming out of the TA (don't forget they're allowed to briefly come to the touch line).
     
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  10. CapnBloodbeard

    CapnBloodbeard Well-Known Member

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    Don't be a spectator. Be constantly scanning the field for off-the-ball problems, especially after a potential incident. Ref is following the ball, the AR's are following their defenders. If they all miss something, you should pick it up. Carry your full kit as always - and make sure you're paying attention to which players are doing what, same as you would as a referee - because if you come on you need to know exactly who's been warned, who's skating on thin ice, etc. Some people find being a 4th boring - IMO if you're finding it boring then you're probably not as actively engaged as you need to be.

    Keep a full record, but you probably want to be the last to write after the ref and AR's have. Don't forget at a sub you need to communicate to the AR for his signal - so if he's near halfway and you think a sub is going to happen soon, maybe give him the heads up, quietly.

    Use your rapport with the managers, especially for minor things, such as coming out of the TA (don't forget they're allowed to briefly come to the touch line).
     
  11. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    As I'm 4th in a few weeks all good advice here - thanks. Not my first time, but they are few and far between at my level, so very useful.

    One more thing we have discussed and decided that its down to me, is to make sure we/I have a note of the numbers of all the players on fop at full time in the event of penalty kicks.

    Its a Vets Final, so roll on, roll off, so I'm going to have to make up some cards to enable me to record the 11 shirt numbers from each side who can take pens (if required).
     
  12. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a very good point. Lots of problems have occurred in penalty shootouts since repeated subs were allowed. With normal one time changes the referee will have a record of who has come on and who has gone off so can work out who should be on the pitch at the final whistle. Whereas with repeated subs it is much more difficult to track this, and I'm aware of a couple of cases where games have had to be replayed because a player has scored a penalty when he shouldn't have been allowed to take one.
     
  13. Charlie Jones

    Charlie Jones Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself Level 7 Referee

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    Your duties as a 4th official are clearly listed in the LOTG ... others here though have picked key points i.e:
    • Roll the ball to nearest player/ a few metres onto the FOP
    • Make sure subs are ready before you get the AR's attention
    • Find out if you are to do the tunnel walk with the other 3 officials (some CFA's and referees like it, others ask you to go straight to the dug outs with the coaches etc)
    • Work out the subs board (if using a plastic manual flip one - see if you can get hold of 2 for multiple subs?)
    • Full match record
    • The ref will most likely tell you he is happy for 3/4 in the technical area (being a cup final) so long as they aren't causing an issue or being rowdy
    you will be given the match balls to control - every time you send one onto the FOP, get another ready out the bag immediately - constantly have one ready to go - also a bit of advice, if one team is losing by a goal, with minutes remaining and he comes to grab the ball off you to hurry the restart - don't snatch it back or argue with him, just let him have the ball ... don't make an unnecessary scene for yourself

    most of all, enjoy it! out of the 4 of you, you have the least work and get to enjoy the actual game the most!
     
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  14. CapnBloodbeard

    CapnBloodbeard Well-Known Member

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    If it comes to that, worth having a chat to the managers during extra time, remind them of the laws (and also they can't sub at the end - to keep subs off and players on). Don't forget the update that you're explicitly prevented from getting the order of the kickers.

    don't know how you'd go about recording the numbers of the 11 on the field. You could record the numbers of the subs towards the end of extra time if you want to be particularly careful. Usually in these cases we'll get the 4th to manage one bench and the AR to manage another, but see what your ref wants.
     
  15. UKColt

    UKColt Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    If you've copied player names onto a match card before the game to note cautions and sendings off, you could use that to mark players who were on the field of play at the end of the game? Just an 'x' next to their name maybe?
     
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  16. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    My plan is to note numbers from teamsheet at start of game and then replace number of player removed with number of sub coming on. Even though roll on, roll off, if I repeat with every sub, I will then always have 11 "active' numbers from each team of those on fop

    No E/T btw, so will remind managers start of 2nd half if a close game.
     
  17. CapnBloodbeard

    CapnBloodbeard Well-Known Member

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    That might be a bit hard to keep a track of, I envision your notebook getting pretty messy with that. I've done plenty of finals with rolling subs, never worried about trying to record who's on the pitch and it's never been a problem, just a matter of the AR/4th managing the benches as soon as the whistle is blown. Still, just because it's rarely a problem doesn't mean it couldn't be . Up to you. Maybe consider if it's easier just recording who's not on the pitch towards the end of the 2nd half. Up to you if you think you can manage it without just making a mess of your notebook ;-)
     
  18. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I agree. On the final whistle the senior assistant gets to the closest bench and the 4th official the other, and they make sure no one comes off and no one goes on.
     
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  19. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Might be easier to go with the messy note book I think!

    Can you imagine if a major incident in last few minutes, or even if not, not going to easy keeping all subs and team officials of fop.

    In any case, even if they do all stay off, 11 on pitch are bound to come over to manager before pens to discuss who's taking etc, so potential for subs off fop to mingle with those players on is high!

    Its the (big) messy notebook for me.

    Final is a week on Sunday - will let you know how it goes.
     
  20. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Can you do this? Surely the manager and his team have a right to communicate to decide penalty takers? And if you allow that (to reference another thread) - what if the manager is also a player? At the very least, you'd need to take time at the end of the 2nd half of ET to log who is on the pitch and/or who isn't?
     
  21. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    It's often part of the standard instructions at senior level anyway, although without a 4th man the senior assistant has a bit of a battle on his hands. I'm not saying keep the manager, coaches, etc off the pitch indefinitely, rather just make sure you have it under control who should be eligible to take KFTPM.
     
  22. CapnBloodbeard

    CapnBloodbeard Well-Known Member

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    I'm lost - you're required to do this. The players can come to the touch line and receive their instructions there, but who is on must stay on, and vice versa.

    Normally I'm in this position without a 4th - the AR gives instructions 2 the benches at the extra time turnaround/halftime, and at the end the ref manages one bench, the AR the other
     

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