A&H

Diversity

micky2001

micky2001

Well-Known Member
I was wondering if there has ever been a black or openly gay referee/assistant at the top flight in any of the UK leagues. I certainly haven't heard of any but was just wondering?

I know that there are 2 female assistants (FIFA I might add) who officiate in Scotland at the top level.
 
The Referee Store
In answer to the OP question, yes there has but why does it matter? I'm not going to name names but the people I know made it to the top (or are still on their way there) based on their ability as a referee/assistant.

RegalRef said:
Uriah Rennie certainly falls into one of those categories. Great ref too.
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I'm assessing tomorrow at the ground where Uri is Club President. Never seen him at a game yet despite visiting regularly in the last 5 seasons.
 
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@Brian Hamilton doesnt matter at all - I think if you are capable enough then you should be given equal chance and opportunity. I'm currently studying diversity and equality as a module at university in places such as parliament etc where there appears to me to be a white heterosexual male dominance.

I was just wanting to see how diverse refereeing was throughout the uk as I feel I may consider it as part of my dissertation if there is an "under representation"
 
The only thing that should matter is the referees ability and performance. I assess referees frequently and the colour of their skin or their sexuality does not concern me.
 
micky2001 said:
@Brian Hamilton doesnt matter at all - I think if you are capable enough then you should be given equal chance and opportunity. I'm currently studying diversity and equality as a module at university in places such as parliament etc where there appears to me to be a white heterosexual male dominance.

I was just wanting to see how diverse refereeing was throughout the uk as I feel I may consider it as part of my dissertation if there is an "under representation"
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Interestingly, in many workplaces these days, people are ending up in the reverse situation. There is such an emphasis on increasing diversity in senior positions that the absolute WORST thing you can be is a white, heterosexual male! Personally, whilst I can intellectually understand the reasons behind this kind of positive discrimination, I find it very hard to feel good about any kind of discrimination, positive or otherwise
 
micky2001 said:
@Brian Hamilton doesnt matter at all - I think if you are capable enough then you should be given equal chance and opportunity. I'm currently studying diversity and equality as a module at university in places such as parliament etc where there appears to me to be a white heterosexual male dominance.

I was just wanting to see how diverse refereeing was throughout the uk as I feel I may consider it as part of my dissertation if there is an "under representation"
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I'm sorry but I don't believe in this 'under representation' nonsense in any walk of life, job, hobby, social standing or otherwise.

Somebody gay, white, black, tall, short or otherwise should not need to 'represent' their make up, and it should not be encouraged to positively discriminate to ensure certain minority's are seen to be 'representing' their sexuality, race or beliefs.

The refs at the top level should be the best regardless of sexuality, race or otherwise, not good but there because it ticks a box.

I find that as offensive as denying somebody that same opportunity based on sexual orientation/race/religion, and I'm pretty sure people pushed forward for only those reasons would.

Ability and attitude is the be all and end all. Race/religion/sexuality etc is as insignificant as hometown, street name or number. Should not even be noticed or remarked on.
 
micky2001 said:
@Brian Hamilton doesnt matter at all - I think if you are capable enough then you should be given equal chance and opportunity. I'm currently studying diversity and equality as a module at university in places such as parliament etc where there appears to me to be a white heterosexual male dominance.

I was just wanting to see how diverse refereeing was throughout the uk as I feel I may consider it as part of my dissertation if there is an "under representation"
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Right about parliament. Diversity in referees is much better than parliament.
 
RegalRef said:
I'm sorry but I don't believe in this 'under representation' nonsense in any walk of life, job, hobby, social standing or otherwise.
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Under-representation is not something you can believe in or not believe in - it is just a fact. If 10% of the population have a name beginning with J and only 1% of top referees have names that begin with J then the Js are under-represented. The important thing is if you think that the under-representation is important and if anything can or should be done about it.

To me it seems strange that there are not more high-level, black and other ethnic minority referees in this country. Is this a problem and if it is what can be done about it? With a general shortage of referees and with concerns (rightly or wrongly) about the standard of top referees in the country then it would make sense to have the widest possible pool of talent available from which to pick the top referees. If there is an under-representation from a significant part of society, this means that it is possible that some potentially exceptional referees are not reaching their correct level. So yes - there probably is a problem

The answers to this sort of thing are seldom simple or straightforward. Are black referees are under-represented on basic courses - if so why? Is it justified fear of racism; is it unjustified fear of racism; is it something else? Or are a representative number of black referees taking the basic course but dropping out later or not dropping out but simply failing to progress. If so why?

It is all very well to say,
RegalRef said:
The refs at the top level should be the best regardless of sexuality, race or otherwise
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but when there are obstacles for one group that don't exist for another, if you ignore those obstacles you will not end up with the best refs.

It is not about moving someone up the ladder faster because of the colour of their skin, their gender or their sexuality - it is about addressing specific problems that one group may have that another doesn't and trying to produce the equality of opportunity that will really allow the best talent to progress.
 
The issue is, as someone said earlier, positive discrimination is becoming a bigger part of daily life. People are getting jobs/promotions/positions simply because they are of an ethnic minority. The FA rolled out a BAME (black and minority ethnicity) coaching pathway last way as an attempt to improve the numbers higher up the chain. 'Positive' discrimination apparently. For me, it's still discrimination and is wrong. Why should Mr X over there get a job ahead of me, because he's black? Is he a better coach than me? Is he more qualified or more experienced than me?

As some people may know, I applied for the Met Police last year. The Met actively enforce a positive discrimination policy! If you're male, white, heterosexual & Christian/Catholic/Atheist, good luck getting in!

Slightly more related to OP, there have been BAME referees and AR's in PL/FL and there will be more (there's lots as Brian says coming through the ranks and currently in Conference)
 
DanCohen17 said:
As some people may know, I applied for the Met Police last year. The Met actively enforce a positive discrimination policy! If you're male, white, heterosexual & Christian/Catholic/Atheist, good luck getting in!
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It is illegal for the police to discriminate on grounds of race when employing new recruits. If you, or anyone else, have any evidence that you have been discriminated against due to your race in applying to join the Met then you should take legal advice.
 
McTavish said:
It is illegal for the police to discriminate on grounds of race when employing new recruits. If you, or anyone else, have any evidence that you have been discriminated against due to your race in applying to join the Met then you should take legal advice.
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I can't be bothered to search, but somewhere online will be the job ad for 'External Superintendent' within MPS. On the ad, it says that if there are two similar candidates, the one who is of an Ethnic background will be given priority.

And by the way, I wasn't discriminated against - quite possibly the opposite (I ensured my religion was on all my forms, as I know what the thought process was behind the scenes!)
 
As Dan says, positive discrimination creates as much anger and offence as regular discrimination.

Why should somebody's race/sexuality/religion decide a promotion or selection for a job etc, either for or against them?

For me these are minor things - I'd rather not know if somebody is gay/straight/white/black/religious/Man Utd fan at all when I interview for a job - none of it has any bearing on their ability to do the job and I'm really not interested so why bring it up??
 
RegalRef said:
As Dan says, positive discrimination creates as much anger and offence as regular discrimination.

Why should somebody's race/sexuality/religion decide a promotion or selection for a job etc, either for or against them?

For me these are minor things - I'd rather not know if somebody is gay/straight/white/black/religious/Man Utd fan at all when I interview for a job - none of it has any bearing on their ability to do the job and I'm really not interested so why bring it up??
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Or age for that matter .....
 
@opayin - while you may have strong feelings on this subject, personal attacks on other forum users are unacceptable. Your post has been deleted and any further such behaviour will result in removal from this discussion/formal warning points.
 
So someone makes an unsubstantiated or unproven charge against a whole race of people but that post stays and mine is deleted?
 
Your post was deleted due to the un needed personal attack in it. You were warned earlier, let's leave it at that shall we?

May I refer you to our rules here?
4. Moderator's say is FINAL
Please do not argue with the Moderators over closed, deleted or edited posts. If a Moderator has closed a post, chances are it will not be re-opened so please do not make an issue of it. If you believe a Moderator is abusing his powers, please contact an Administrator
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opayin said:
So someone makes an unsubstantiated or unproven charge against a whole race of people but that post stays and mine is deleted?
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Firstly, you were factually incorrect. I made it into the Met, so my 'failings & shortcomings' that you speak of, are wrong!

Don't you DARE try and pipe up to me when you know nothing about a situation.

Oh, and a word of friendly advice - probably not your wisest idea to start on all 3 of the staff members if you wish to continue your presence here.
 
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