A&H

Debating a misconduct report

H

Harry

New Member
Level 6 Referee
So normally this type of thing wouldn't bother me, I've got pretty thick skin when it comes to taking crap off people but today it really grated on me and I'm unsure whether it would be petty to send a misconduct report.

Basically, game (u17s) finished 3-3. The away team threw away a 3-1 lead in the last 5 minutes, the home team equalised through a free kick which they made clear they didn't agree with. Anyway all fine and walking off the side of the pitch towards my bag and a group of parents questioned my decision for the free kick, I explained and carried on. Then came some louder comments "you're the most biased one sided ref I've seen", "you should hang up your boots" the sort of thing you normally just ignore or laugh off but today it really wound me up, normally after a game I've never had parents make comments like that when I'm right there but it didn't surprise me, they were one of the most moany teams I've had

I've put up with a hell of a lot worse from players and managers and let it go, am I just being really petty?
 
The Referee Store
Not worth engaging with parents.....never worth the effort.

Could you identify the parents?

Personally I wouldn't bother with it.....just move onto the next game.
 
Personally in one way I agree with padfoot but I'd maybe call your ref secretary and just say that team A or team B need to be seen once or twice because if it happens again something much worse can happen to another ref
 
ref craig said:
Personally in one way I agree with padfoot but I'd maybe call your ref secretary and just say that team A or team B need to be seen once or twice because if it happens again something much worse can happen to another ref
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Sorry, but what exactly is 'something much worse', and how do you jump to that conclusion on the basis of some mild verbals from spectators?

Parents moan at or about the ref because it's easier than admitting that their little darling had a stinker........always have, and probably always will.

Which is why it is rarely, if ever, worth taking the time to talk to them. They've already made their mind up about your performance, nothing you can say will change that, they just want an opportunity to vent.
That isn't exclusive to youth football either, same applies to OA.
 
If your kit bag has to be pitch side, try to put it somewhere where parents are not. Then you have no reason to walk past groups of parents to collect it at the end of the game

As for reporting the comments made, your reaction suggests that you found them offensive on the day so, yes, report it (perhaps letting the manager know that you will be doing so - as long as you think that doing so won't make the situation worse).

Middle option is to let league's ref sec know by adding the info to your match report, even adding that, should there be any repeat at future games then you would be sending in a misconduct report - written in a nice way, of course, the ref sec is usually on your side in my experience
 
I would do misconduct report - leagues rarely do anything about these things.
if clubs are called to account / fined by county FA then this is only way such behaviour will be eradicated. If we all adopted a lower tolerance level and reported such incidents then this will drive an improvement in standards of behaviour in grass roots football. Too many people think they can say what they want and insult referees without any consequence.
 
Golden rule: Never get involved with parents/spectators.

Anything that is said by them after the game, good or bad - just smile, say "thank you for your opinion" if you must say something and walk away.

Then have clearly annoyed you. if it was me I would chalk it up to experience and forget about it. But I am not you, so you can make your own mind up. Either way, don't worry about it. Another game around the corner.
 
Always file a report. The FA Respect program is there for this reason and parents sign to it as well.

All saying "don't bother" should realise it needs to stop as this is what is driving young referees out the game

Of course we can deal with it and ignore them but think of yourself at 14 years of age? I'm sure it would have hurt you somewhat...
 
Who is 14 in this scenario?

There is abuse and there is abuse. If you report every tiny bit of disgruntled nonsense or sour grapes you hear around a football pitch you would be forever reporting things. I'm not saying this is the case here (I wasn't there and unless you were you don't know what it was like) but some of it you just need to accept for what it is (nonsense) and let roll off you like water on a ducks back.

There is an (un)clear balancing act between what is acceptable, having a thick skin and what is unacceptable.
 
There are 14 year old refs who would leave the game because of these. The fa respect program is meant to retain refs.

Yes in OA its somewhat more run of the mill but the refs are normally weathered enough to brush it off.

In youth football it is unacceptable and shame on you for endorsing it. A 14 year old boy or girl will not, in many cases, have the strength or experience to brush it off and could result in them leaving the game

Abusive parents have no place in youth football and should be reported for the blindingly obvious reason that the simple fact of the matter is referees leave the game because of this!
 
Monkey, this scenario, ref was 18 but would comments have been different if he or she had been 14? Perhaps, perhaps not.

One simple formula for what is abuse and, consequently, unacceptable, is to image that you are writing a list of things that it is acceptable to say to referees, whatever their age, sex, colour or creed.. If you wouldn't put it on the list, then it's abuse.
 
Nobody is endorsing anything hearts, perhaps reading my post more carefully may help you.

The ref in question is an 18 year old man and can decide for himself if he feels the line was crossed. He doesn't need nonsense finger pointing and dogmatic black and white thinking from us.

I agree to a point haywain. But for the record, if this was a 14 year old ref, getting this from adult parents it would be a very different scenario.

Can I suggest you now climb down from your high horse please herts. We are here to provide opinion, suggestion and support. Just because you do not agree with part of what I am posting does not give you the right to assign "shame". The irony of you doing that, in a thread talking about abuse from others, should not be lost on you?
 
Bottom line......don't engage with parents.

By engaging with them in the first place you open the door for further comments.

Where possible always make sure your bag/bottle is on the opposite side to the parents, and just don't get involved...use the managers to control the parents.

By wrapping young refs in cotton wool we are not going to do them any favours. By putting on the black you have to accept that you will be the focal point for peoples displeasure......and you need to learn to deal with it from the start. No point in insulating referees from it until they are 16 or 18 only for reality to come crashing down on their first OA game.........

Maybe we should simply bite the bullet and raise the age for refereeing from 14 to 18. That way no minor is exposed to any possible abusive behaviour and new referees will be, hopefully, mature enough to deal with it at that point. 14 yr olds maybe able to deal with the players at u8 or u11, but clearly they aren't equipped to deal with managers or parents at that age. The more i think about it, the more it makes sense to raise the age limit to 18.

Or maybe we should actually just be a bit more selective about who we let become referees at 14? I see many 14 yr old refs who are clearly only doing it for the pocket money, take no care over their appearance, don't have any authority over the game and just generally go through the motions without making any effort to exert themselves. I would suggest that it is these types of referee that are more likely to attract negative comments due to their indifferent poor performances. Get rid of them from the game and you remove part of the problem.
Likewise, overly authoritative referees are also at greater risk of attracting negative comments.

This is because referees in Youth football are largely ignored by CFA's, they never get quality checked unless they apply for promotion, the leagues aren't generally bothered as long as they get someone to cover the game, so we end up with a whole raft of poor referee's that probably only need a guiding hand or word of encouragement to turn into competent referees.
 
clever, monkey :rolleyes:

i think, herts, that toleration of abuse in football at whatever level is partly, if not wholly, a consequence of the refereeing world being made up of mainly white males between 25/30 and 60/65.

the influx of younger referees, female referees, referees of other denominations and a few good heads at the top of each step of the refereeing and footballing ladder should eventually see a culture change which may, or may not, embrace zero tolerance as the way forward
 
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haywain said:
clever, monkey :rolleyes:

i think, herts, that toleration of abuse in football at whatever level is partly, if not wholly, a consequence of the refereeing world being made up of mainly white males between 25/30 and 60/65.

the influx of younger referees, female referees, referees of other denominations and a few good heads at the top of each step of the refereeing and footballing ladder should eventually see a culture change which may, or may not, embrace zero tolerance as the way forward
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Or maybe simply because the reality it is that it is a working class sport and as such attracts participants from a working class background who use "industrial" language routinely and has absolutely nothing to the with the colour of someone's skin?
 
@HertsFinest you don't have to agree, far from it. However being argumentative without having any relevant point is unacceptable. This nonsense stops now. Post on topic and accept that others have different opinions to you. You don't have to like others opinion, but you do have to let others have opinions.

Cool it.
 
HertsFinest said:
In youth football it is unacceptable and shame on you for endorsing it. A 14 year old boy or girl will not, in many cases, have the strength or experience to brush it off and could result in them leaving the game

Abusive parents have no place in youth football and should be reported for the blindingly obvious reason that the simple fact of the matter is referees leave the game because of this!
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Padfoot said:
Maybe we should simply bite the bullet and raise the age for refereeing from 14 to 18. That way no minor is exposed to any possible abusive behaviour and new referees will be, hopefully, mature enough to deal with it at that point. 14 yr olds maybe able to deal with the players at u8 or u11, but clearly they aren't equipped to deal with managers or parents at that age. The more i think about it, the more it makes sense to raise the age limit to 18.

Or maybe we should actually just be a bit more selective about who we let become referees at 14? I see many 14 yr old refs who are clearly only doing it for the pocket money, take no care over their appearance, don't have any authority over the game and just generally go through the motions without making any effort to exert themselves. I would suggest that it is these types of referee that are more likely to attract negative comments due to their indifferent poor performances. Get rid of them from the game and you remove part of the problem.
Likewise, overly authoritative referees are also at greater risk of attracting negative comments.

This is because referees in Youth football are largely ignored by CFA's, they never get quality checked unless they apply for promotion, the leagues aren't generally bothered as long as they get someone to cover the game, so we end up with a whole raft of poor referee's that probably only need a guiding hand or word of encouragement to turn into competent referees.
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Padfoot - In York and the North Riding area, there is a very active and well support mentoring system for the young referees. Thi sis organised by the RDO of NRCFA and actively support by senior referees. NRCFA allocates a sustantial fund of its budget to developing its referees via the academy. If your area doesn't seem to care about the young referee, then your clubs will ahve an issue in a few years time.

Herts - As a level 8 referee (under 16), they are not allow to referee above their age group, so a 14 year old referee would never do a U17 match. That said, the parents tend to be the same at all juniro football. In York, the minor league hugely supports its junior referees. If they get a report of problems with parents / spectators, then tend to get either a very senior referee to deal with or a young referee (with a committee member, who is a referee or assessor, in tow) who is not quite about the reason for their appearance. Minor football has the future local league players and referees, without them we don't have a much of a future.

I agree if the parents get to you to a position where you are thinking of report them, then they have already crossed the "resepct threshold" and they should be reported.
 
At any level, if you as referee are upset, offended or feel abused by the spectators, then you should consider putting a report in. Not just to be an a##e, but to get it in writing and on record.

Think about the the guys who get this team next week, the week after and the week after.........

If nothing is done, then the behavior will continue, most likely escalate and before you know it some other poor guy in black will find it is wholly unacceptable. At least there will be a record of a 'history' with that club should it come up to hearings/committee level which will in turn serve to back the referees over the club and make it harder for the committee to 'fudge' the situation.

The fact that the OP is an u17 game actually strengthens my opinion on it - whilst almost adults, the players are still learning from their adults and this behaviour will become normal and be carried into the adult game by the players.
 
Contrary to popular belief, putting on the black shirt doesn't mean you should be the subject of abuse, regardless of age. I accept that I'll be the person that people look to blame, but displeasure and abuse are two very different things. The fact that the OP is even considering a misconduct report means that a line has been crossed.

@Padfoot I started refereeing when I was fourteen, and whilst I had some terrible experiences with parents and coaches in particular, the majority were fantastic. Those experiences made me in to the referee I am today and meant that when I turned 16/18 and began to ref older age groups, I was prepared. The issue lies with the CFA's and their support networks, or lack of them. I was forced to abandon a mini-soccer game in my first season after a coach reduced me to tears; there's no doubt that was because I was so young, but that experience made me stronger. Unfortunately, my CFA were useless, the coach was charged and requested a hearing but the CFA messed me around so much, two cancelled hearings (an hour before) because of the manager being unable to attend, but they arranged a new one on my birthday, so they did it in my absence and refused to even discuss it with me. Pathetic, and I still resent them for that.

Put the right support networks in place and our young referees will thrive, fail to support them and we'll continue to lose referees as a result of vile abuse. I don't regret for a minute starting at 14, and would encourage every young referee to start at that age.
 
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