A&H

Club ARs, dissent

BlindButFair

New Member
This post is partly to debrief and partly for input.

Had an interesting match today. This is about my 9th (?) game as a centre, so very new still! In fact I had not ever given out a yellow card before today - partly due to being new but also refereeing very young players who have been well behaved.

Today I had U15 girls, top division, Red vs Blue. Red is expecting to win the match. In this competition at this level we have club ARs who call offside as well as ball out of play. Before the match Red coach tells me he thinks the CARs cheat by flagging offside to prevent his team from scoring. I tell him I'll watch the CARs and overrule when necessary (which I would do anyway).

First half straightforward, Red leading 1-0 at HT. Early in the second half Blue equalise.

Then Red score on a counterattack. I look over at the CAR, no flag, award the goal. Then shouts of "offside, offside!" from the Blue bench. I run over and confer with the CAR who says he's 100% sure that Red committed an offside offence, so I disallow the goal and award an IFK.

Red bench is furious, saying it was onside and that "I told you about this before the match". I tell them I am not going to overrule the CAR unless I'm certain he's wrong, which I wasn't, so blow the whistle for play to continue.

There are a couple of other tight offside calls which Red complain about, and later the Red coach says to his players "we just have to concentrate, we're up against it, the ref's against us". Ahhhh. I should have cautioned him (obviously) but chickened out, having never given a card before and knowing that he was close to blowing up. As soon as play moved on I realised I'd made a mistake and that now all of the Red players were going to follow his lead... which they did. Constant low level (and not even that low level) dissent for the rest of the match. I didn't give any cards but probably should have, or at least given a stern verbal warning. Example: "How is that offside?" "Look the AR's flag is up!" "But she was behind the player when it was passed" "I don't think so" "How can you blow the whistle when you don't even know why it was offside?"

Late on there is a 1 v 1 which results in a Red player going down, I thought it was a fair challenge, she disagrees and charges the Blue player off the ball, knocking her over - easy yellow - at least I've done that now!

After the match Red coach complains that he'd warned me about the CARs, that their season is ruined because of the 1-1 draw (they've only played 5 matches! And they missed a penalty too) etc. I just tell him I wasn't prepared to overrule CAR unless I was certain. One of his players yells "you're a disgrace, you should go back to ref school!" but when I look over they're all in a bunch and I can't tell who said it.

So...
1. It's hard with CARs isn't it? Some are obviously better than others, many seem a little incompetent (eg behind play often), I don't believe this one was cheating, but it's very hard to get to the front of play to call them myself on a counterattack on a full sized pitch
2. Any tips for dealing with dissent, aside from the obvious that I should have cautioned the coach? I think my personality outside of refereeing works against me here - I'm more likely to want to talk to people to resolve situations rather than tell them off, and I have thick skin so can ignore insults that I probably shouldn't - I think I need to work on that a bit for refereeing!
 
The Referee Store
Well done for the matches, for the explanation and for the ability to analyze your performance like this. That you have recognized these factors suggests you are on the right track!

Club ARs - thankfully not where I am. But last match I had a third-timer and on the other side a (sadly incompetent) retiree. My answer is give the feedback (“thank you”), coach a little if it fits (“on the goal line at corners”), and if you have to then change the briefing (“everyone will play to the whistle now - I will wave you down if the flag is not credible - you need to be 200% sure now”).

Low level dissent - you’ve answered already;) Recognizing at the time when it starts is the hardest part. Then you have the stepped approach. I think it’s important that everyone in the game knows. So, when you give that first warning/YC/sin bin, do the performance, use hand gestures, make sure everyone gets the message. And if it carries on don’t be afraid to stop the game and use cards.

…I also have an issue with being too nice and understanding. I think you can preserve empathy but do not ignore, do not pretend you have not heard, this creates problems for you.
 
Well done. It is great that you can analyse your performance after the game. This is fundamental to improving as a referee. It is probably natural for all newish referees to be a bit tentative and to lack the assertiveness that comes from experience in stamping out dissent. Dissent is like a cancer and if it bothers you and isn’t stamped out early it tends to erode your confidence and authority (which of course it is designed to do) as the game goes on. Every decision is contested and you begin to doubt yourself. We have all spent time in this place. Act early and be as consistent as you can. Don’t engage in protracted discussions and don’t let coaches get away with the passive aggressive attacks on your performance - these tend to be the most damaging in my experience. You will learn a lot from this game and next time out you will be a better referee as a result. I can’t help with CARS as this is not really a thing where I come from but it must add difficulty to what is already a difficult role. I think I have heard others on this forum say not to allow CAR’s to adjudicate OS and I can see why this may be the best option.
 
Good analysis and reflection which is really important to improve.

Question? By this;

Then Red score on a counterattack. I look over at the CAR, no flag, award the goal. Then shouts of "offside, offside!" from the Blue bench. I run over and confer with the CAR who says he's 100% sure that Red committed an offside offence, so I disallow the goal and award an IFK.

You infer you have given the goal as there was no flag, then the CAR is shouted at and you talk to the CAR and agree it is now offside?

My observation is, unless the flag is up at time of offence or very soon after I have no interest in a retrospective flag and will wave it down and award the goal. Which avoids the insinuation of cheating and maybe several of your later issues/challenges would not have occurred.

Good luck for rest of season.
 
You infer you have given the goal as there was no flag, then the CAR is shouted at and you talk to the CAR and agree it is now offside?

My observation is, unless the flag is up at time of offence or very soon after I have no interest in a retrospective flag and will wave it down and award the goal. Which avoids the insinuation of cheating and maybe several of your later issues/challenges would not have occurred.

Thanks, that's a very good point. The shouts from the bench were not at the CAR - they were at me to alert me that the CAR had in fact flagged offside - apparently he raised the flag, but then lowered it before I saw it. I say "apparently" because I obviously didn't see it go up, and it was definitely down when the ball went into the net. My interpretation was that he'd just lowered it too early, and I took him at his word, but I can definitely see how it could appear to be a retrospective call (and maybe it was; I admittedly can't be certain since I didn't see it go up). I had briefed both CARs before the match to keep the flag up until I'd blown the whistle. Hmmm. I can see why you would just wave it down in this circumstance.
 
It's hard with CARs isn't it? Some are obviously better than others, many seem a little incompetent (eg behind play often), I don't believe this one was cheating, but it's very hard to get to the front of play to call them myself on a counterattack on a full sized pitch
CARs always cause problems, it seems. Puts you in a no-win situation as the CR. I had a match just yesterday I was ARing where the center was coming from another field and would be there 10 minutes after kickoff. I started the game as center for them and opted to start with just 1 AR instead of recruit a CAR.
Not sure if this is the technically right solution but CARs are just not dependable. And I've worked enough 1-ref games that I feel comfortable working a little harder on the side without an AR to get outside quicker and call offside myself.

If it had been for a whole game, I probably would have gone for the CAR though. Ugh.

Any tips for dealing with dissent, aside from the obvious that I should have cautioned the coach? I think my personality outside of refereeing works against me here - I'm more likely to want to talk to people to resolve situations rather than tell them off...
I'm also new so take this all with a grain of salt!

I personally don't think I could have cautioned the coach for: "the ref's against us"

This is kindof contextual. If they're saying it as you're passing and clearly loud enough just so you'll hear it, you're probably good to caution since it's directed personally at you. Please correct me if I'm wrong (really!) but this sounds more like the coach's way to motivate their team. Not a great way but it's more about motivation than a personal attack.

I probably would have opted for a warning. "Watch that kindof language, coach. Next time I hear anything like that, I'm getting my cards out." Usually quiets down coaches quickly.

I'll also opt to talk before pulling out cards. It's good game- and person-management, I think.

Review technical area discipline in LOTG. That gives a pretty good outline of what constitutes yellow, red.

I have thick skin so can ignore insults that I probably shouldn't - I think I need to work on that a bit for refereeing!
I'm the exact same way.

In my first training class, they told us: "Never try to tough it out or be too thick-skinned. This just invites coaches and players to push things even further. You're making things harder in the future for all your fellow referees and especially young referees. No need to be overly-sensitive but don't allow anybody to give you any **** without consequence" (I'm paraphrasing now haha).

Overall, good journal entry. This is the kind of self-reflection and feedback session that will help you get better. Good stuff!
 
If you have any suspicious a CAR may be dodgy, or even on a seemingly-valid late flag, don't give them a yes/no question, as it's so easy just to say yes and get the goal against their team disallowed.

Ask them to tell you what happened, or who was offside. You'll get a sense pretty quickly if they have a good sense of what happened, if there are subjective elements you as the ref need to make a call on, or if they've just stuck the flag up in hope.

If they can't explain what happened, it's easy to sell sticking to the original decision. And if they can explain what happened, you'll then also have a better idea when it comes to explaining your final decision to other players.
 
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I personally don't think I could have cautioned the coach for: "the ref's against us"
At any level where there are CARs, I’m more than happy to see a ref caution for this.

It’s just a classic way to undermine your authority and try and get under your skin, even if directed at their own players. One of the comments that does my head in to be honest.
 
If you have any suspicious a CAR may be dodgy, or even on a seemingly-valid late flag, don't give them a yes/no question, as it's so easy just to say yes and get the goal against their team disallowed.
Good advice!
 
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