A&H

CAR's - what you can/can't do?

GregR

GregR

Active Member
Just seeing what everyone thinks of the situation I find myself in.. I am at university in Leeds and therefore under the jurisdiction of West Riding CFA, and you may or may not know but they run a policy of 'no power for the CAR'. They see it that YOU are the referee, therefore YOU and only you shall give offsides. You cannot give any power to the CAR's apart from ball in/out of play.

This is/ well was puzzling to me. I get why they do it, but to give offsides when you cannot see across the line means you're guessing some of the time and leads to players complaining. All you can then do in that situation is tell them you can't see and that you're doing your best, but I only know of two CFA's who implement this, Cheshire being the other but it is just puzzling and I wanted to get your thoughts on the issue..
 
The Referee Store
I've always told my CARs to flag a player in an offside position, when the ball's played forward by a teammate, who interferes with play. Invariably they flag EVERYONE in an offside position, so then I make the judgement about interference. The players seem to know where they stand (excuse the pun) and the CARs can then lapse into Alan Hansen mode (if they're on the pitch, then they're interfering with play!)
 
I simply ask them to flag when the ball has gone out for a throw / goal kick / corner on their side, and to give a direction if they can. Ialso ask them to let me know if thee is something serious I have missed, I.E violent conduct.

Don't usually let them near Offsides or fouls. But if I get the odd one that will genuinley be honest, and flag for offsides and fouls, than I'll let him do it, but only if he is honest!
 
But my problem is i'm not ALLOWED to ask them to do offsides with West Riding, whereas in Staffordshire I can ask them to do everything..just different counties, different rules on it I suppose :confused:.

Lewys, you ask CARs to tell you VC? I didn't think could take a CARs word for anything, especially RC offences that you have missed, in that case it is; 'I've missed it and cannot act', unless i'm totally wrong?
 
I know it may be incorrect in law, and to be honest, I've never had a CAR tell me that anythin like this has happened, but what I mean is, if a player has punched somebody in the face when I had my back turned, I'd want the CAR to tell me, bearing in mind that this is only for games between ages U11 and U13, so the coaches are usually trustworthy in these games. Anything higher, than obviously I don't. :)
 
To be honest mate, it sounds like your going to have to do as the CFA says.

As for CAR's giving misconduct, by all means bring it to my attention, but unless I've seen it, in not giving it.

I hate it when CAR's flag for freekicks, despite being told not to
 
I know Ross. I've managed a season through it, I was just seeing if anywhere else was like it or if anyone had experienced it because coming from CARs able to give everything (apart from free-kicks etc.) to them just giving ins and outs is a bit of a culture shock.
Yet I know how to judge if someone if offside now without the CAR waving furiously at me because they can't do anything. All a good learning curve i'd say even if slightly strange at first!

I agree on that, yes they can bring attention to it but as Ross said, unless you see it there is nothing you can really do regardless of the age.. I suppose the only thing you can do is have a stern word and just tell them that it isn't acceptable and despite you not seeing it, if something like that happens again then he'll be in some trouble.. I can't comment though, I have come off kids completely now so I don't really remember the Nou Camp atmosphere of 20 parents glaring at your every decision anymore, i'm lucky if I get one man and his dog :p.
 
Since when could your CFA amend the LOTG?

As per the LOTG it is up to the referee what responsibilities he gives to the AR's..........
 
Apparently not Padfoot, they regard CARs as 'unreliable' and therefore recommend that you don't tell them to flag for offsides.. I believe that Cheshire CFA are the same also?
 
If they only recommend it, then surely your free to still ask CAR's to give you offsides? You don't have to do as they recommend do you?
 
Ross a referee may well receive lower marks on assessments for relying on the untrained and unreliable CAR. To my knowledge WRCFA have always just used CARs for ball out of play. I believe it may have its roots in rugby league as that is all the touch judges tend to give
 
I get what your saying Brian, but other CFA's allow CAR's to give more than just ball in and out of play, do assessors in these counties give lower marks?

In my mind, we need to have consistency across the board, which we clearly don't have :(
 
Well Ross, I for one can say i've been assessed with good CARs and infact got my highest mark of the season in the promotion season just gone when I had CARs on the line; however this was back in Staffordshire where they can give offsides whereas in West Riding CARs can't..
 
Ive been out assessing where the CAR's have been 'questionable' and ive not docked them marks. Mainly because of the way the referee dealt with it, he was aware of the situation and kept a close eye on him
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Ross a referee may well receive lower marks on assessments for relying on the untrained and unreliable CAR. To my knowledge WRCFA have always just used CARs for ball out of play. I believe it may have its roots in rugby league as that is all the touch judges tend to give
Click to expand...

A referee is the sole purveyor of what responsibilities he allocates to AR's, Club or Neutral....unless you can find something in black and white that amends the LOTG?

As for the assessors marking down for relying on dodgy CAR's......that could apply to any CFA. If i accepted dodgy offside calls from a CAR all game, i would expect to be marked down......however, i do not blow the whistle the instant a CAR flags....i always try to take a second or two to judge for myself and then decide.....plus you get to know pretty early on in a game how reliable your CAR is going to be.

But of course, if you start from a position of "they're useless and can only be trusted with ball out of play", i am not surprised that referees find little evidence to alter that perception. Whereas if you actually treat them with a modicum of respect, and make them feel part of the "team" then you do tend to get more out of them.

Just reading that back, it seems this is aimed directly at Brian...it's not....it's a generalised "you" referring to all those referees who are in CFA's who "encourage" them to only use CAR's for ball out of play.
 
I am one for doing exactly that Padfoot, however I tried doing it in my first few games of the season and the manager looked at me in disbelief, as if giving responsibility was something he wasn't used to. I always try and make my CARs, as you say, 'part of the team' and generally if they are half decent you will get correct calls from them, but alienating them is something I am not used to and it does make you feel as though you have no support system for any decisions (I know part of being a referee is making those, but it is always nice to have someone there to confirm your right with a flag and not a sub standing on the half way line randomly flagging or worse the flag lying on the floor).

I mean I can't say I haven't got used to it now, but it is still strange that I cannot sort of 'include' the CARs and carry-out my pre-match talk with them which was practiced many times in the early years but you live and learn and working alone for everything can only improve my refereeing I suppose. Even if there is nothing in law which states you can be dictated what to do :confused:..
 
Greg, Ross and Padfoot you have hit the nail on the head ... if you rely on a CAR who has signalled incorrectly, then the assessor has to consider whether you as referee should be over ruling. If you don't then you lose marks. If reliance on CARs mean you apply law incorrectly or position yourself poorly, then you will lose marks.

If you work on the basis that you wouldn't let an unqualified driver drive your car nor an unqualified teacher teach your children, then you're probably best not to rely on an unqualified AR giving you signals for offside (that's my personal viewpoint, not any official stance by WRCFA)

Padfoot, you made me laugh out loud ;)
 
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