A&H

Can anyone expand on this?

The Referee Store
The bad thing is that we’ve all met at least one of these coaches recently who seem to think that they’re in the Premier League.

I do however think he makes some good points though in the replies that the FA should make support more clear for new referees and the course should be more extensive.
 
What a very strange comment to make. A comment he's already back pedalling on.

Looking online, he has a bit of history for posting things he should maybe think twice on.
 
It's the last paragraph of the second tweet for me (which as correctly identified above was totally a case of backpedalling on his first tweet).

Something along the lines of 'if the quality of refereeing was addressed then there would be less criticism / abuse'

Does he not realise that it's the latter than must improve before the former can? The best way to improve the overall standard is to have a bigger pool to choose from, the only way you're going to get that is to stop encouraging abuse.
 
The great irony of course is that parents of young referees mostly think that they need to be at the game to protect their young son or daughter from the criticism and abuse they receive at pretty much every week without fail and irrespective of how good a game they have. I am sorry, but if you are an ex-player and coach who is so blinded by passion that you can’t see the massive problem with your comments than you really shouldn’t be involved with grass roots football in any capacity. Here’s a tip though, pick up a whistle, get in the middle and reflect on your comments after the game!
 
It’s one thing to get worked up at a referee at a game - often still unacceptable but in the moment it can be understood that sometimes people get overwhelmed with emotion and frustration, and then unfortunately take that out on referees.

To then take to social media and criticise any referee, particularly a child, after you have reflected on the game is not the sign of a good person. There is no consideration for how such a tweet would make that 14 year old ref feel - they are perhaps even a ref doing their first game. I get he’s apologised but the club has clearly taken a stand, forcing him into an apology.
 
I remember doing the course back in 1999, using still images as examples etc, and having debates in the classroom with other fellow candidates and ref coaches about what we should do etc.
But once I passed the exam, which was very close to 100%, I was then left on my own. I know today there are far more "advisors" to help new refs when starting, but not enough. Some still have none.
I passed my test late in the season. I was given a couple of U14/15 games and then bang - I'm on the line for 2 semi finals alongside a good friend of mine (experienced ref) and another very experienced referee whom I knew of. I got the games as a way of gaining more experience. Did I deserve such a game new into my "career"? Probably not. Did it help. Probably.
After about 4-5 more 11v11 games, season ended. Long wait now until the new season, new law changes too to learn. I'd only done about 6-7 games, and 2 lines.
But it wasn't a long wait. So to speak.
I was involved in about 5-6 weekend long tournaments. Potentially doing 30+ games in a weekend of all age groups of 7-10 minute long, 5/6 a side games. Alongside some other new, and experienced, referees. That summer I probably done 150 mini games. Built my confidence up massively. Learned from experience, gained a good circle of contacts for advice, and meant when I got back to 11v11 it was "easier" to get back in to.

This is what I personally think is by far the better thing to do for new referees.

I'm not saying delaying courses until the end of each season.. but maybe see about hosting some "tournaments" mid season, having a "mid-season break or invitationals etc. something...
It's real game experience, albeit small sided, all age groups, not just the small age groups that can lose a lot of people's attention, as it's slow paced. Along with experience and new officials creating a circle.

I moved north of the border a few years ago.
I do games as and when work allows me. But one thing I found different here than down south is that there are no "summer tournaments", especially local to my area.
Leagues finish around March/April for many teams and don't start again until August. Some friendlies for the 3-4 weeks before. But there is nothing. Referees also have to be 16 to start, it's 14 down south.
I know of about 2 referees here. If I had a bad game, or think I had one, I don't know who to talk to about it. Get advice etc. And I can't imagine a lot of others do. It is extremely rare for a team of officials to go out together.

Sorry for the long post. Just feel officiating can be done differently at the beginning but not sure what really needs to be done. Just my suggestion.
 
I was promised an observer within my first 5 games which never happened and I've had to 'learn on the job' as they say (with lots of help from refchat!) but it's been ok as a mature adult. A couple of the 'kids' on my course were too shy to even call out 'blue throw' etc in the exercises so I truly hope they got more help than I did.

Some grassroots youth coaches are half the problem, especially those with an ex-player mentality. They come complete with a full book of myths that they then teach to kids. I still believe the LOTG should be taught to Level 1 coaches as part of their course. At least an overview with some of the more common misconceptions.
 
DazN said:
I was promised an observer within my first 5 games which never happened and I've had to 'learn on the job' as they say (with lots of help from refchat!) but it's been ok as a mature adult. A couple of the 'kids' on my course were too shy to even call out 'blue throw' etc in the exercises so I truly hope they got more help than I did.

Some grassroots youth coaches are half the problem, especially those with an ex-player mentality. They come complete with a full book of myths that they then teach to kids. I still believe the LOTG should be taught to Level 1 coaches as part of their course. At least an overview with some of the more common misconceptions.
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That's half the problem too.
Before I moved north I enrolled in being an observer for new refs. Travelled to a game and arrived about 20 minutes before the ref did. Think that was more because I overestimated traffic.
Anyway... I walked the pitch. Saw some potential problems but thought I'd not say anything until I got the verdict from the ref himself. A 15 year old who has come out with his dad to support him.
The pitch itself was covered in glass. It was part of the top soil I found out when it was relaid. But there were some really chunky bits too. For me it was dangerous. The ref did spot it, thankfully.
He called the game off. Home team wasn't happy. Said a few choice words before I intercepted on the young refs behalf, apologised for doing so as it could look like I was taking over after, but felt the coach was going overboard for this young mans first couple of games.
Clearly there is no incentive for anyone to do this. Some refs do it solely for the money and when they're told it's expenses only etc they don't want to help.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
That's half the problem too.
Before I moved north I enrolled in being an observer for new refs. Travelled to a game and arrived about 20 minutes before the ref did. Think that was more because I overestimated traffic.
Anyway... I walked the pitch. Saw some potential problems but thought I'd not say anything until I got the verdict from the ref himself. A 15 year old who has come out with his dad to support him.
The pitch itself was covered in glass. It was part of the top soil I found out when it was relaid. But there were some really chunky bits too. For me it was dangerous. The ref did spot it, thankfully.
He called the game off. Home team wasn't happy. Said a few choice words before I intercepted on the young refs behalf, apologised for doing so as it could look like I was taking over after, but felt the coach was going overboard for this young mans first couple of games.
Clearly there is no incentive for anyone to do this. Some refs do it solely for the money and when they're told it's expenses only etc they don't want to help.
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I do feel like it would help if the basic course covered more of the eventualities new referees WILL encounter. Unfit pitches, teams with players turning up late, thunderstorm in middle of game etc...
 
Luckily for me (and my kids), two nearby clubs pay for 3-man crews for U9, U10, U11, and U12 small sided games. After my kids became certified at age 13, they learned and gained experience by being assistant referees for U9 and U10 recreational league games where I or a friend was the center referee. Then they started doing assistant referee for U11 and U12 recreational league games. Then started centering U9/U10 rec games where I was one of their assistant referees. My oldest is now a U17 and is pretty confident referee and center referees competitive league matches up to age U15 and is starting to be assistant referee at the highest level youth leagues for U13-U15. My youngest son is U15 and still only does U9-U12 recreational league games. I agree that a 14 year old's first game should not be centering a U12 match....especially without assistant referees.
 
NOVARef said:
Luckily for me (and my kids), two nearby clubs pay for 3-man crews for U9, U10, U11, and U12 small sided games. After my kids became certified at age 13, they learned and gained experience by being assistant referees for U9 and U10 recreational league games where I or a friend was the center referee. Then they started doing assistant referee for U11 and U12 recreational league games. Then started centering U9/U10 rec games where I was one of their assistant referees. My oldest is now a U17 and is pretty confident referee and center referees competitive league matches up to age U15 and is starting to be assistant referee at the highest level youth leagues for U13-U15. My youngest son is U15 and still only does U9-U12 recreational league games. I agree that a 14 year old's first game should not be centering a U12 match....especially without assistant referees.
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You have liners on U9 games?!
 
Runner-Ref said:
You have liners on U9 games?!
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Yes, not every club does it though. Fortunately, the two neighboring clubs where I live pays for linos at U9, U10, U11, and U12. And they pay like $20/game for 25 minute halves. So not bad for a 13 year old. Great environment to learn the ropes.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
I moved north of the border a few years ago.

I know of about 2 referees here. If I had a bad game, or think I had one, I don't know who to talk to about it. Get advice etc. And I can't imagine a lot of others do. It is extremely rare for a team of officials to go out together.
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Sorry to hear you feel this way. You must have joined one of the SFA Referee Associations when you moved, training takes place weekly in every association and meetings held every couple of months. Get yourself along to these and meet other referees at all levels of the game.

Each association also has an advisory panel for grassroots games, get in touch with these guys for support and advice as well.
 
I started back in January this year.

It was 1 and half day course. Rock up, all quizzes were on a semi-anonymous website app that was projected and we answered on our phones. Too many people to really keep on-top of how people are performing on knowledge checks and the practical out on the pitch was rushed due to numbers, then we were off in to the wild.

I started on open age as I didn't really know there was any other way to do it.

As I was in my late 20s, it probably helped, as people probably assumed it wasn't my first rodeo (I never told a soul I was a new referee). I got no mentor or coaching until I got my first coach report for level 6 promotion several months later then a second one for my level 6.

Never had a mentor.

I even find the coaching reports for 7-5 very basic, you do get decent feedback, but if you are of a certain standard you seem to sail through (my own experience and not a humble brag, as I make a lot of mistakes on the pitch).

Just mad to think, I could of been at almost any standard, as long as clubs were literally not calling for my head on a spike, you are sort of just left to it.

I pretty much only learn from doing the line now, Refchat and YouTube videos.

I think I'll have a real hard time getting level 4 as I'll probably get found out at level 5.

New referees tend to not be given the tools to succeed and this doesn't help with retention or general referee-relations. Also a lot of the old and bold referees, the sorts that aren't logging every card, and sort of refereeing in their own way aren't helping either, but is that even their fault if they are just doing it to keep fit, stay involved, money and just general getting out the house.

You could easily go years and years in this job, just renewing your FA fee and never attending anything to refresh.

New referees should never be a target for abuse. Full stop.
 
Scotty Ref said:
Sorry to hear you feel this way. You must have joined one of the SFA Referee Associations when you moved, training takes place weekly in every association and meetings held every couple of months. Get yourself along to these and meet other referees at all levels of the game.

Each association also has an advisory panel for grassroots games, get in touch with these guys for support and advice as well.
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I'm not disagreeing about the "training". There is a physical training session that takes place in the association I am in.
Location means I'm out.
Nearest one is about 20-25 miles away, late on a midweek night meaning, as I don't drive anymore, it is impossible for me to get home. That's without factoring work which 9 times out of 10 I am doing.
Never heard of any meetings to be honest. I did attend one first year up, but again location is key here and times of them mean can't get home again. The one I attended I was taken to by a local ref who watched one of my first games as he was walking by and introduced himself. Even gave me my first sfa shirt. My first couple of games was in a shirt that had no badge.

I'm not trying to say the association do nothing to help integration of refs but the widespread of the association, it can be very difficult for more rural referees to get involved.

And for the last part of your post.... I had a very troublesome game earlier this year, was on the verge of quitting too. Spoke to the association and the league, and no one, from either, actually called to see if I was ok. I took advice from friends I know from my old association.
 
I'd like to know where he gets the idea that there are "far too many parents" who want their child to become a top referee.

I've certainly never come across any and to be honest I find it a little hard imagining that there are more than a tiny handful (if any) who have that ambition for their child.

It's not as if it's something that even the most zealous and supportive parent could ever guarantee or even really assist their child in doing.

Even if they could, top referees hardly earn a tremendous fortune. They can make a very good wage if they get right to the top (but nothing like what top players get, for example) and there are not many PGMOL refs who last more than 15 years at that level (sometimes a lot less than that).

And it's not as if are they will become revered and honored across society in some way - quite the contrary, of course. As we know only too well, referees are widely criticized, even reviled at times and especially nowadays, subject to some of the most vile online abuse and increasingly, death threats.

It just seems to me that it would be a very strange ambition for a parent to have and I just don't believe that many of them actually do.

Perhaps others have a different perspective or experience of this?
 
I think it is fantastic that a person like Karl Henry is involved in grassroots football given he had a great career at the highest levels of the game. It sounds like he will have the teams coached to a good level and set out to be competitive and move kids on to higher levels which is good.

When Karl reflects on his comments I hope he can separate the Premier League Officials and the Grassroots Officials and not hold the youngsters and all the rest of us who referee junior games to the same standards he would have held Mike Dean to when Karl was playing
 
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