A&H

Assessments changing your style

R

Richthekeeper

Active Member
Just wondering whether people feel that assessments have a positive or negative impact on the way a referee approaches a game?

As I'm still a player at a reasonable standard (Welsh League) I have had conversations with my manager about my decision to become a referee. He was quite influential in my decision because I've spent several seasons sitting on the bench for him and listening to him talk about referees who "don't know the game" and "have never played the game".

My point to him recently was that I do know the game and have played the game, so would hope to bridge that gao fairly well. His response was that another friend of his had made the same move and initially did really well, but was shaped by assessors in a way that alienated him to players and managers. He even went as far as to say that poor refereeing is the main cause of people leaving the game.

I'm interested to know what people think of this. For example I've read through some assessment reports on here where assessors are critical of players having not been shown cards etc. While I understand the need for consistency I don't agree with handing out cards and sanctions for the sake of it just to satisfy an assessor. As I've mentioned in a previous thread if I can manage things like "dissent" without reaching for my cards I feel like that's testament to my ability as a referee. Maybe I'm being naiive.

In summary my question is, what are we as referees doing to avoid being alienated from everyone else in the game?
 
The Referee Store
Its a really good point because players what a referee to be fair and use common sense. If you listen to an assessor and apply to rules fully to the laws of the game then players do resent that. At lower levels I think a bit of common sense doesn’t hurt but if you want to progress in the game then when you have people watching you, you do have to tick all the boxes.
 
Interesting point, one observation. Players and managers do not want THEIR OWN players shown cards - they frequent demand opponents are shown cards! The beginner mistake with use of cards is that they are some times used in isolation to control a game. The trick IMHO is balance. Talk to players, use your body language and person skills where you can get away with it, but sometimes you need to go to the pocket.

For example; Allow clear and continued dissent without action - hello even more dissent and goodbye control of the game. Fail to take appropriate action at a foul, players take matters into their own hands. Someone potentially gets hurt. Failing to show cards when they are deserved or expected is a dangerous game to play.

Assessors seem to want (for the most part!) common sense from the ref. Okay there are mandatory cautions, give them! Players know they are coming despite the look of surprise! But outside of that assessors are valuable to a developing referee. And being in their good books is vital for any ref aspiring to move through the ranks!

The alienation question. (As a ref) Do what you're there to do to the best of your abilities as fairly as you can. You will still alienate some fans, some players and Definately some team officials because everyone sees the match with a biased eye. Tough. Accept that refereeing and popularity do not come hand in hand. Do your job, uphold the laws of the game, try and make sure as far as you can everyone goes home safe having enjoyed a game of football and accept that some people may think you're a crap ref (hell sometimes, some matches they might be right!). But at the end of the day the game needs referees, players, supporters and managers. The main difference, the ref has to remain unbiased. And generally he will be the only person who really knows the laws of the game
 
With all due respect, if I get to the stage where I turn up with a defensive mindset that I'm the ref and I'm in charge, I'll give up.

It's possible to have authority and control and still be respected. Ultimately I do it because I enjoy football not because I want to piss off 30+ grown men on a Saturday afternoon.
 
:lol: Why have a defensive mindset? Having a positive approach is vital. Have a read on this forum, there is plenty of discussion around this topic. And With all due respect you will be the ref, you will ultimately be in charge - how you go about asserting that is what's important, but assert it you must.

I would suggest you look at your attitude as you come across as thinking you are better and different than other refs. You seem to be carrying the notion (as you stated in OP) that other refs are poor or have bad attitudes. Most of us on here played before becoming referees (maybe not at your level) and I dare say we were idealistic also when we started, I certainly was. I can vaguely remember having the same mindset as you funnily enough about certain things.

And I can assure you the ultimate goal of every referee is to go home and have every person on and off the pitch happy, it's just a bloody difficult thing to do! Both teams want decisions to go their way... You have to decide what you saw and go with that. Guess what? 50% of people present are a little bit less happy, sometimes they are a lot less happy if you see something which earns a red card. Times this by the multitude of decisions in a game and add high profile cup or promotion / relegation considerations! And of course times that by the passion foot ball inspires in us all...

Just a question, not meant as anything more than that, Have you started refereeing yet?
 
Actually, don't answer that, it's not important.

Instead I offer this; Good luck, enjoy your refereeing and if you have any questions etc this forum is a great place to find answers and support. :)
 
Let me clarify that I do not think I am better than anyone else. I just wanted to understand how the situation overall is viewed by the refereeing community, ie his forum. Sometimes there does seem to be an "us and them" approach, and I'm interested to know why this comes about.

In general if you talk to a footballer or a coach about becoming a referee they can never understand why you would want to do such a thing.

I have so far found this forum a very useful source of information and guidance.
 
It's all good mate. :)

If there is one bit of advice I can give, seek out your local referee society, if you haven't already. Very helpful.
 
Its a very interesting subject you bring up. I have played at a reasonable standard and was well know locally for being quite hot tempered. I was a fairly uncompromising full back, not especially brilliant but always fully committed and reliable. Always first to mouth off at refs and run 50 yards to join in any handbags too truth be told. Lots of my former team mates thought it amusing when i went into refereeing, "poacher turned gamekeeper" springs to mind!

I take great pride in engaging in banter with players where appropriate, if the mood of the game allows it and like to talk frankly and honestly to players, which works well for me in the main. However, I must admit that I have often been out in a team of three and had conversations about players, coaches, supporters and in general, along the lines of "they dont know the laws", "all players are idiots", "you cant talk to people like that, they are morons", "you had no choice, boll£"*ks to them" and so on. A 'them and us' culture does exist, there's no doubt about it. The issue is, that when I played and my team was losing, I blamed the referee rather than my own team's shortcomings for the situation. I know this is ridiculous, I knew it at the time, but it didnt stop me!! Nor does it stop players now, I think its simply inevitable.

There remains plenty of room for common sense to be used in refereeing, but its dangerous to try too hard to be a popular with players ref, as this can ultimately compromise your professionalism. At the end of the day, the LOTG are your master, not players, coaches, or anything else, otherwise you shouldnt be reffing.
 
i think that's the kind of response i was anticipating when i wrote my original post.

would you say that the them and us culture is inevitable or is it something that can be improved?
 
its absolutely inevitable. Sure it can be improved, but at the end of the day, if as a referee you award a penalty for a clumsy tackle that a player doesnt think was a foul, how on earth can you convince him otherwise? A smart, common sense referee can try their best to calm the situation with "in my opinion you fouled him, you're allowed to disagree, but I wont be changing my mind so quieten down and lets get on with the game" Most players will accept this, but some (me when I played usually) just wont accept this and thats when issues arise. The man in black makes the decisions, some players will not accept that and act like idiotic, brainless infants (me when I played for sure) and you simply cannot solve that issue. You MUST deal with their dissent and if it results in OFFINABUS then so be it. If players are unreasonable, what can we do?

I (correctly according to the assessor) dismissed a player very late on a few weeks ago for mouthing off, he completely lost his mind and ranted and raved and had to go. Not ten minutes after the game he was a different person, apologising, dont know what came over me, sorry ref, I was bang out of order, cheers for reffing, sorry again, you coming to the pub for a drink, I'm buying, etc etc. We've all been there, in the heat of the 'battle', people act like lunatics.
 
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I have been involved in the game for nearly 40 yrs, in one respect or another. I played as midfielder to a high level, but then injury and work commitments etc came in and I ended up playing GK for a number of years, again at a decent level. My 'non-footy' career took me into TV, working on sports, mostly football, so I was mixing with pro, ex-pro players and coaches most days. Last few years, I became a junior coach, am involved in the admin side of the game, on a club committee, Liaise with NZF and the Federation for the region as well as refereeing. Our levels are different here, but if the ASB Premiership is our top domestic league, then I ref at Div 7 (I think thats around Skrill N/S ???) although the 'standard' of footy probably not lol. So still involved at a decent level and feel I've got a pretty good grasp of the game from behind the scenes as well as on the pitch.

For me as a ref, I am not trying to be popular with the players, but I do understand their frustrations and feel I am good at recognising when a verbal outburst is down to frustration at themselves rather than others. Although what and how they say it is the main thing and care in managing it.

There are mandatory cards, you can not 'apply common sense' to these.
Others, you should be able to manage but be prepared to use the cards as part of the management process.

It annoys me, at our regular referee nights, hearing guys comparing their card-counts for example "I gave four on Sat, how many did you give? Only two? you're too lenient mate!". Or belittling players with words like 'idiots' 'morons' etc.

Personally, I take my low card count as a compliment - I don't think I've ever carded someone when it was undeserved, nor have I let players get away with stuff without the card being shown. I have avoided the need to show a card by using common sense and management, but if it's mandatory it's mandatory. Even then though, if the player is feeling hard done by with it, I'm happy explain 'It was a reckless tackle with little regard for safety, I don't have a choice but to show the card. Sorry fella, I know he just did you for pace - he's a quick bugger eh?'

I remind myself regularly, that when appointed to a game, if the players don't tun up, I go home disappointed. If I don't turn up, the game will probably still go ahead as a kick-about just the result won't count.

'Us & Them' - of course there will always be an underlying feeling of that, because that is the situation we put ourselves in. They are the players, we are the officials.
 
i really like your point about being almost apologetic - we don't make the rules, we just apply them with a dose of perspective.
 
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