Ajax VAR Red

[socal lurker]

I might have mistaken off hand what happened but, he gave a pen, then without going to the screen, was told its a pen

If he called a PK, the VAR won't tell him it's a PK; the VAR will only tell him a PK was not clearly wrong.

(As I understand it, VAR are evaluated on the decisions they make, just as the R is. Failing to send down something that should have been sent down is a big ding on the VAR, regardless of who the ref is. And at least some of the R evaluation schemes give the R credit for accepting a VAR recommendation (if it was correct) so they don't have the same ding for the missed call.)

 

[PinnerPaul]

There is still (at present) no way an elite guy is going to simply take the word of Baldrick.

That is just perpetrating the myth that the VAR is a mythical being - he's going to be a fellow elite referee (in the PL at least)

 

[Ciley Myrus]

That is just perpetrating the myth that the VAR is a mythical being - he's going to be a fellow elite referee (in the PL at least)

Granted

but every ref rates themselves and nobody is going to (or admit to) liking the advice of a lesser being

 

[PinnerPaul]

Or do what rugby does and replay it on the big screens for everyone to see there. Complete transparency and accountability

and the games are massively delayed by referees reviewing nearly every try. I've read accounts of RL games that have taken twice as long as pre VAR games.

 

[PinnerPaul]

Granted

but every ref rates themselves and nobody is going to (or admit to) liking the advice of a lesser being

See you point, but if it happens in practice you will get the farcical situation where referee A always goes to the pitchside monitor and referee B never does!

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Just as nobody waits for Mondays (or whenever) ballot dreaming of being 4th to Rodger East at Huddersfield v Brighton, I cant see too many folk looking at the fixture list wetting themselves over bring VAR at a game

There is no substitute for being out there, that's the pole position and if your eligible/at a cat/ where you could be there, then that's where you want to be.

What VAR might be a good role for is the experienced guys coming to end of career, Mariner/Dean.

no elite guy is going to welcome the input of, new kid on the block.

 

[socal lurker]

no elite guy is going to welcome the input of, new kid on the block.

I think this is simply wrong in the context of VAR. The top guys got where they are by focusing on getting the right decisions and managing games the way their bosses want them to. Referees were interested in VR because it would help them get bailed out when they missed a KMI for some reason (as in the infamous Webb yellow). And referees get rated on their KMIs. And referees are going to pregame with their VAR. The VAR, even if far less experienced, is a valuable tool to help them do that--not because the VAR has better judgment, but because the VAR gets to patiently look at something multiple times from multiple angles. Depending on what they saw on the field, they may or may not want to see it themselves before reversing--subject to the expectations of those who make referee decisions for the competition. On the play that started this, unless Kuipers (or someone else) talks, we don't know if he insisted on seeing it because he wasn't willing to trust the VAR, he watched it because his bosses expected him to, or he watched it to help sell the call

 

[Ciley Myrus]

unless someone is actually in the know, having worked with elite referees, it will be a case of him not trusting the VAR

I don't have a problem with this, its perfectly natural.

Its already open and common practise for refs to rank their 4ths, some they will trust without question, others they are not so sure, and same with Ars, so, follows suit it will happen with VARs

Speaking for myself, not that I will ever referee with VAR, if I see something, call it, then am told in ear it might be different to what I saw, then, I know I for one want to see it. And I be amazed if am alone in that


its a total isolated and rare incident but there was that Iranain ref who made some big call years back in a WC and only recently was vindicated for it, VAR would have said he was wrong at the time. Only the ref could see what he saw at the time (which in years to come has proven to be correct). Found it, Norway v Brazil. Only the ref could see what he saw real time.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Brief synopsis please?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Brief synopsis please?

He was only person in stadium who saw it and no tv camera saw it
Shirt pull on Flo by a Brazillian with a few mins to go

 

[Mintyref]

Brief synopsis please?

VAR is good V VAR is Bad argument........
Think it's all square at the moment.......

 

[Sheffields Finest]

 

[socal lurker]

He was only person in stadium who saw it and no tv camera saw it
Shirt pull on Flo by a Brazillian with a few mins to go

As I recall, it was several days later that someone produced a still picture that showed the hold

 

[Ciley Myrus]

As I recall, it was several days later that someone produced a still picture that showed the hold

7 hours or 7 days or 7 years, fact remains, in the referees own words, nobody could confirm it at the time
16 cameras and no sign of a foul
yes tech has moved on, but, based on the facts as they where then, only his eyes saw the correct call

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Play on.... next.... Sod VAR!!!

 

[Yampy]

If he called a PK, the VAR won't tell him it's a PK; the VAR will only tell him a PK was not clearly wrong.

(As I understand it, VAR are evaluated on the decisions they make, just as the R is. Failing to send down something that should have been sent down is a big ding on the VAR, regardless of who the ref is. And at least some of the R evaluation schemes give the R credit for accepting a VAR recommendation (if it was correct) so they don't have the same ding for the missed call.)

Yes, that's how it was explained to me last night.

PRO has made a conscious decision that all VAR reviews are either 'check complete' or the Referee must take a field side review for the ultimate decision. It's a decision based on PR, the audience, integrity and transparency (not necessarily in that order). Howard Webb indicated that there are/will be regular VAR Reviews posted on the PRO website and I can see one there for week 4 right now. I'd encourage you to have a look at www.proreferees.com

I know many will scoff at the idea but PRO appear to be approaching it in the right way. The EPL and PGMOL would do well to adapt/adopt their ideas rather than plough a lone furrow because we're English and the best, obviously!

 

[Big Cat]

Yes, that's how it was explained to me last night.

PRO has made a conscious decision that all VAR reviews are either 'check complete' or the Referee must take a field side review for the ultimate decision. It's a decision based on PR, the audience, integrity and transparency (not necessarily in that order). Howard Webb indicated that there are/will be regular VAR Reviews posted on the PRO website and I can see one there for week 4 right now. I'd encourage you to have a look at www.proreferees.com

I know many will scoff at the idea but PRO appear to be approaching it in the right way. The EPL and PGMOL would do well to adapt/adopt their ideas rather than plough a lone furrow because we're English and the best, obviously!

Sod that! The pitch side monitor is a scourge on the game so at least the EPL refs are delivering on the 'minimal interference' pledge
Not wishing to brag that we've improved on an awful process, but at least i can boast that we're the only ones to have been implementing HB correctly for numerous years

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Sod that! The pitch side monitor is a scourge on the game so at least the EPL refs are delivering on the 'minimal interference' pledge. Not wishing to brag that we've improved on an awful process, but at least i can boast that we're the only ones to have been implementing HB correctly for numerous years

Pathetic at mass confrontations though !!

 

[RustyRef]

Or do what rugby does and replay it on the big screens for everyone to see there. Complete transparency and accountability

Some PL grounds don't have a big screen, and don't have anywhere to put one. Like Goodison Park, but there are others.

 

[Yampy]

Sod that! The pitch side monitor is a scourge on the game so at least the EPL refs are delivering on the 'minimal interference' pledge
Not wishing to brag that we've improved on an awful process, but at least i can boast that we're the only ones to have been implementing HB correctly for numerous years

Looks like the braggadocio of the English will no doubt keep us at the forefront of law making for years to come.