The Ref Stop

Advantage woe

santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
3rd game of the season, had an observer tonight. I was happy with everything except how I handled advantage situations - I essentially messed up 3 or 4. I felt my timing was great with all other decisions - but I was just too quick to give advantage. 2 in the first half, one for each team. Both 30m from goal. Yes, a chance to shoot coming. But both I should have waited a two more seconds and then the DFK would have been easy to give.

The third was 2 mins before half time. It was in midfield. Yellows were 1-2 down. They wanted to play, I played a quick advantage. They lost the ball. In retrospect, given the match context, they would have benefitted from a DFK and the chance to get their defenders forward.

These three were annoying. The fourth was daft. Yellow 32 is on a booking. He gets totally skinned 10m from the left corner flag on a break. My diagonal. Striker is heading for goal. 32 attempts to trip, there's contact outside the box, not much but easily enough for a foul. I think this is a great goal scoring opportunity - it's an oblique one on one. So I signal advantage. Then the attacker checks back and yellow 32 tackles him. D'oh.

Having signalled advantage, I know the correct call here is to whistle when 32 touches the ball, 2nd YC, red and restart with IDFK to the attackers. But, I bottle it, knowing that it would destroy match control. I wave play on and don't get complaints. The attackers are happy with their 2-1 lead and win.

I learnt: don't be so quick to signal advantage, especially in front of an observer!
 
The Ref Stop
santa sangria said:
I learnt: don't be so quick to signal advantage, especially in front of an observer!
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Such a difficult skill to get right! Interestingly, the referee I assisted on Saturday was pulled up by his observer for the exact opposite .. waiting a couple of seconds to see if advantage would develop and then (when it didn't) going back for the foul. He was told this looked 'indecisive' and he should either blow for the foul sooner or clearly call the advantage and then go back if it doesn't properly accrue. Which is obviously correct but doing this repeatedly just ends up looking a bit messy. Why can't players just make us look good by turning all of our advantages into amazing goals?! :)
 
Alex Rush-Fear said:
Could you not have come back for the original free kicks, as no advantage accrued?
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This is all about timing of the signal isn't it. What we see on the telly is that the top refs only give the signal when they are sure the advantage has accrued. Correct me I'm wrong but if you signal and then bring it back, it's messy, poor communication and leads to loss of match control. It might be acceptable based on the laws but it is what we are trying to avoid.

Rock and a hard place. Having signalled early though, you are right, I could have come back for the original offence. I must remember that next time. It would have got me out of a hole with the second yellow.
 
its such a hard thing to get right. During my game on Saturday the referee saw a foul about 35 yards out, ball broke and he hit the whistle to bring it back for the DFK almost at the exact second that the defender who in the normal scheme of things would have cleared it, takes a complete air shot, giving another attacker the chance to nick in behind him and go 1 on 1 with the keeper..... Sod's law!
 
I am really struggling with Advantage, i've cost myself a few marks in recent assessments so I can empathise with the OP.

The big thing in my head is the old mentality that by signalling advantage you are playing on, but the "new" way is that even if you signal advantage you can (and should) come back if the advantage doesn't accrue (in some circumstances). I still can't get that right, it's just ingrained in me that by playing advantage I have made a call which cannot be backtracked. I don't know when this changed, I saw it on the PL a few seasons ago so it's definitely a new thing.

As a result, I don't call advantage until I am sure it has accrued, and I lose marks when I come back for a free kick as the observers say I have not indicated an advantage to come back for.

In the situation you describe however, if the player decides to turn back away from the advantage you have given him, there's not much you can do, and if it really was a clear opportunity to get a shot away then it's his fault he did not take it. I'd argue that your call was correct and the player inexplicably didn't take it. Damned if you do and all that....
 
Monotone Whistle said:
The big thing in my head is the old mentality that by signalling advantage you are playing on, but the "new" way is that even if you signal advantage you can (and should) come back if the advantage doesn't accrue (in some circumstances). I still can't get that right, it's just ingrained in me that by playing advantage I have made a call which cannot be backtracked. I don't know when this changed, I saw it on the PL a few seasons ago so it's definitely a new thing.
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Funny you say that, as my observer a few weeks ago put advantages as a strength on my report, and specifically cited a couple of times when I had waited to see if an advantage accrued and brought it back without ever signalling, rather than signalling and then bringing it back. He was quite an old school referee though, so that ties in with your suggestion it's a more recent change.

I had one earlier this season when a player was pulled back about 40 yards from goal on a counter attack. He fell over, so I blew for a foul. By the time I'd got my whistle to my mouth and blown, he'd jumped back up and was already on his way to goal. He obviously wasn't happy, but I just straight up apologised for not waiting, which he appreciated. Ever since then I've always taken the extra couple of seconds to see if an advantage might accrue!
 
So Brian, four of those five points are (to me) clear and not open to misinterpretation. But what, in your opinion, is meant by "effective use of time to decide if advantage accrues"? Because it seems from this thread that for some observers this means 'blow quickly or signal advantage quickly' and for others it means 'wait a second or two before deciding whether to blow or play advantage'.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
In the situation you describe however, if the player decides to turn back away from the advantage you have given him, there's not much you can do, and if it really was a clear opportunity to get a shot away then it's his fault he did not take it. I'd argue that your call was correct and the player inexplicably didn't take it. Damned if you do and all that....
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Ah in my #4 advantage from the OP I also had a second yellow/RC. It's clear that the goalscoring opportunity has to be very good to continue to play on through a red card. In retrospect the oblique angle of entry into the box after the foul means I should have probably blown. Also the attackers were 2-1 up. I failed to compute the wider match context I think in this case.

Great stuff in this thread guys (and or ladies). With this point about "effective use of time to decide if advantage accrues", what I see from the best Prem refs is that they have a particular pose for "I am now pontificating on a potential advantage"... IIRC some do a kind of "up periscopes" that is really obvious on TV, slightly slowed run, neck extended. very obvious manoeuvre - and I am presuming this is trained and practiced.

I think this is easy enough to communicate with body language in a break away situation but is difficult to do when static in more crowded areas. Of course, this also reminds: crowded areas + slow player movement = highly unlikely advantage!

Anyone have any "I am pontificating advantage" words or gestures they use?
 
I was AR for a ref recently who did the pontificating really well. Stopped running and stood there right beside the foul. Hands on knees slightly bent over and basically cut the grass with his chin whipping it around the field "surveying" the situation...eventually decided on advantage and went running off after the play in superman pose...looked a bit funny but covers this issue well...i forgot to ask him about it after as I was curious if it was trained or just his thing.
 
I generally point at the foul as i run past with a nice load 'I've seen it!' To make it clear to the players and the guy walking his dog that ive identified the foul.

If theres no advantage ill normally shout something like 'There's no advantage so we're bringing it back for the foul', seems to work fairly well for me
 
Yeah, I think if you've allowed play to go on a distance before bringing it back, it's always worth shouting something like "The advantage didn't come off, so we're going back for the foul!"
 
Nalbi said:
I'm guessing it is the guidelines for the observers the FA distributed this year
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It's from The FA Handbook for Supply/Contributory League Referee Observers.

Handbooks from other national associations are available but of course are just plain wrong.
 
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