A&H

Advantage from offside...

RegalRef

RegalRef

Politically Incorrect
Very strange one this - it's done and gone but would be interested to hear people's thoughts...

U18 girls game last night. Apparently at the reverse fixture at the beginning of the season there was a huge kick off of some sort resulting in a small scale fight amongst players and a huge verbal between managers/coaching teams.

Reports were logged to CFA by both sides and both were unfounded by CFA.

Anyway, for last nights game it was apparently requested for a strong referee (I'm honoured) and NAR's of which the teams footed the bill, and this was agreed.

Anyway, all went predictably smoothly despite some clear bad feeling harboured on both sides from last time which was swiftly dealt with at the beginning.

Approx 70 minutes in home team (red) attacking away team (blue). Attack goes forward, about level with rearmost edge of centre circle, I suspected offside from the red attempting to win the ball, flag goes up from NAR.

Blue player wins a long looping header well into red half, straight to blue players feet. 3 v 3 for blue, a chance of a promising attack and about to give the big arms and shout advantage, when blue picks up the ball and throws backwards for offside.

I blow for handball against blue and blue coach is going nuts on the side at his player for not playing to the whistle, along with a few bemused comments from blue players.

I stuck with the handball and red dark for restart.

Thoughts?

N.B. To clarify - neither the visual or audible advantage signals had begun at the point the ball was picked up by blue player.
 
The Referee Store
There is no advantage from offside. Either the offence doesn't exist or you don't give it.

You were right to award the handball.
 
RegalRef said:
Very strange one this - it's done and gone but would be interested to hear people's thoughts...

U18 girls game last night. Apparently at the reverse fixture at the beginning of the season there was a huge kick off of some sort resulting in a small scale fight amongst players and a huge verbal between managers/coaching teams.

Reports were logged to CFA by both sides and both were unfounded by CFA.

Anyway, for last nights game it was apparently requested for a strong referee (I'm honoured) and NAR's of which the teams footed the bill, and this was agreed.

Anyway, all went predictably smoothly despite some clear bad feeling harboured on both sides from last time which was swiftly dealt with at the beginning.

Approx 70 minutes in home team (red) attacking away team (blue). Attack goes forward, about level with rearmost edge of centre circle, I suspected offside from the red attempting to win the ball, flag goes up from NAR.

Blue player wins a long looping header well into red half, straight to blue players feet. 3 v 3 for blue, a chance of a promising attack and about to give the big arms and shout advantage, when blue picks up the ball and throws backwards for offside.

I blow for handball against blue and blue coach is going nuts on the side at his player for not playing to the whistle, along with a few bemused comments from blue players.

I stuck with the handball and red dark for restart.

Thoughts?

N.B. To clarify - neither the visual or audible advantage signals had begun at the point the ball was picked up by blue player.
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For me you correct in what you did. Although the NAR had flagged for offside, your the only one that can stop play so as the coach said play till the whistle.

lincs22 said:
There is no advantage from offside. Either the offence doesn't exist or you don't give it.

You were right to award the handball.
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I've saw linos flag for offside in the premier league and the ref played an advantage on numerous occasions..?
 
You thought the player challenging was offside. So did your AR obviously. To me the player must be offside, therefore from your description I'd say you were wrong. But I think you know that by how you worded it.

Other points to bare in mind;

1. It ruins your NARs confidence and credibility - both teams are probably not used to having NARs so will expect flag goes up, whistle blows. It wasn't an OGSO so why complicate it? NAR would probably feel a bit miffed too, and depending who was on his side of the pitch (assuming they were on opposite touchlines) probably copped some aggro.

2. If you're being technical then should you also caution for Deliberate Handball? That would be messy. Keep it simple!

3. There's tension in this fixture already, stay on top of Match Control by avoiding needless controversy - what if Reds score from free kick?
 
Darius said:
You thought the player challenging was offside. So did your AR obviously. To me the player must be offside, therefore from your description I'd say you were wrong. But I think you know that by how you worded it.

Other points to bare in mind;

1. It ruins your NARs confidence and credibility - both teams are probably not used to having NARs so will expect flag goes up, whistle blows. It wasn't an OGSO so why complicate it? NAR would probably feel a bit miffed too, and depending who was on his side of the pitch (assuming they were on opposite touchlines) probably copped some aggro.

2. If you're being technical then should you also caution for Deliberate Handball? That would be messy. Keep it simple!

3. There's tension in this fixture already, stay on top of Match Control by avoiding needless controversy - what if Reds score from free kick?
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There was no doubt the attacking player was active and I fully expected the flag to come up which it did. No doubt she was offside, my question came as to if the handball broke the advantage you go back to the offside or go with the handball.

In term of your other points...

1. Confidence and credibility was not harmed with a very loud and public "thanks Jordan, great decision there we were about to go for an advantage before the handball" along with thumbs up all round. It wasn't OGSO, but it was a very promising attack approx 10 yards outside the box, 3 on 3. No aggro for NAR, mild moan at me, large moans focuses on player.

2. No. All handballs are deliberate, not a mandatory caution.

3. It wasn't a case of 'avoiding needless controversy' or not, the last thing I expected the girl to do was randomly pick the ball up unprompted. But when she's stood there with the ball in her hands you have about 2 seconds to decide what you're going to do. My question is did I choose the correct of the two options on offer?
 
I'd say wrong, but then IMO someone picking the ball up like that is cautionable. The joys of refereeing!
 
Oh Ruffers :rolleyes:

Sounds like you did the right thing.

Wouldn't yellow card for the handball as it was probably ignorance more than a tactical attempt at breaking up play.
 
HertsFinest said:
Oh Ruffers :rolleyes:

Sounds like you did the right thing.

Wouldn't yellow card for the handball as it was probably ignorance more than a tactical attempt at breaking up play.
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Oh Farts :rolleyes:

She'd have been tactically breaking up play against her own team...
 
Darius said:
2. If you're being technical then should you also caution for Deliberate Handball? That would be messy. Keep it simple!
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Deliberate handling is punishable by a free kick, nothing more. It only merits a caution if it is something more serious, such as an attempt to prevent an opponent gaining possession or an attempt to score a goal by handling. A player picking the ball up when her team already had possession and when an AR was flagging for a free kick to be awarded to her team (even though the whistle hadn't gone) comes nowhere near the requirements for a caution, as far as I can tell.
 
lincs22 said:
There is no advantage from offside. Either the offence doesn't exist or you don't give it.
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The use of advantage in relation to offside is very useful. One particular example is where a player is offside, the flag goes up, but the ball is running through to the keeper. Depending upon the position of the offside, it may be advantageous for the keeper to drop kick quickly, rather than have to move 10 yards forwards for a static kick. By signalling advantage, you are a) acknowledging the flag - both for the AR's benefit but also, importantly, for anybody else watching and the players of both teams and b) the PIAOP knows he's been caught offside, and should then know not to challenge for the ball, as the whistle would then blow for the IFK. Likewise a PIAOP may receive the ball, flag goes up as a defender tackles and pushes a good attacking pass forwards; the use of advantage would allow the game to flow whilst also serving the same as point a) above.

Playing advantage for offside is not that dissimilar to playing advantage when your AR has signalled for a foul; you are acknowledging the offence by the very act of signalling advantage (as opposed to the offence didn't happen so you don't signal anything).

I also double checked the good book. Nothing in there to say you can't play advantage for offside, and in fact:

Advantage
The referee may play advantage whenever an infringement or offence occurs.
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A player being in an offside position is not the same as awarding a free-kick for offside. The infringement for offside only occurs when you award the free-kick, otherwise it is just "play on".

Yes, I agree it us sometimes better to let play to progress from the goalkeepers hands rather that the free-kick but for advantage to be applied you should have a "enhanced attacking potential" not just procession. How can advantage occur when the ball is 20 yards behind the location of an offence.

Acknowledging the flag, is also not advantage, just good practice.

This is just a technical point, what you are doing is correct just it is not advantage, as defined.
 
lincs22 said:
There is no advantage from offside. Either the offence doesn't exist or you don't give it.

You were right to award the handball.
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???? - I've seen many referees at all levels wave a flag down and continue with play after AR has raised for offside?
 
lincs22 said:
Yes, I agree it us sometimes better to let play to progress from the goalkeepers hands rather that the free-kick but for advantage to be applied you should have a "enhanced attacking potential" not just procession. How can advantage occur when the ball is 20 yards behind the location of an offence
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Because in most football (and certainly all the grassroots and youth I've been involved in) it's advantageous for the defending team as the GK can kick the ball from his hands much further up the field than a player can off the ground from a FK for offside.

Like @joe cunningham, I too have seen numerous examples of premiership referees signalling advantage when carrying on play despite an offside. @lincs22 , I think you're missing the scenario where a) there is a player in an offside position, b) he becomes active and therefore actually commits an offence but c) it's better, for whatever reason, for the defending team to play on rather than have the FK. Cast iron advantage, no different to other types of infringement ....
 
lincs22 said:
A player being in an offside position is not the same as awarding a free-kick for offside. The infringement for offside only occurs when you award the free-kick, otherwise it is just "play on".
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One point I made is that this is no different to a foul. A foul is not a foul until you decide to blow for it - or acknowledge it by signalling advantage - even when it is the AR that has flagged for it.
 
Russell Jones said:
Because in most football (and certainly all the grassroots and youth I've been involved in) it's advantageous for the defending team as the GK can kick the ball from his hands much further up the field than a player can off the ground from a FK for offside.

Like @joe cunningham, I too have seen numerous examples of premiership referees signalling advantage when carrying on play despite an offside. @lincs22 , I think you're missing the scenario where a) there is a player in an offside position, b) he becomes active and therefore actually commits an offence but c) it's better, for whatever reason, for the defending team to play on rather than have the FK. Cast iron advantage, no different to other types of infringement ....
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I agree with this 100%. In fact I'd just finished composing a much longer and less concise post making almost exactly the same points. However this post from Russell makes mine redundant.
 
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