A&H

0 tolerance approach

boblardo

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Saturdays game had me wondering if a 0 tolerance approach should be adopted to dissent. the obvious "you are x ref, or XXXX Off ref" warrant an appropriate card as its direct

However the less direct dissent such as questioning of every decision, indirectly making comments about a decision etc, if this was stamped on early would it stop or is it likely to give the referee a reputation of being card happy!!!

I used to think my tolerance level was high but the more I referee the more I see my levels decrease
 
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Is a good idea but that approach could mean possibly every player who had taken part on a yellow card and the managers on warnings. It should work over time but too much could have a detrimental effect.
 
Hi boblardo,
I firmly believe that football SHOULD have a zero tolerance approach. And when I say zero, I don't mean 'stricter than what we are now'. I mean, zero.
Problem is, it needs to be universal. Go out there as an individual and you're likely cause more problems than you solve.
Watch rugby union - do players say anything to the referee at all? Of course not!
There is no sport on this planet that tolerates as much abuse as this one does. I would go so far as to argue that the extreme leniency at all levels doesn't just tolerate it - it condones it, even encourages it. Referees are active supporters of their own abuse!
We (the sport as a whole, referees included) like to come up with excuses. 'Oh it's a passionate game' and so forth. That's utter nonsense. Every game is passionate.
We then like to blame the referees for abuse - 'we should be managing the players'. No, we shouldn't - we've just backed ourselves into a corner requiring this approach because as a whole we can't be bothered fixing it.
Then there's the idea that the game is 'about the players, not the referee'. Yet there is no sport on this planet where players and spectators are as concerned about the referee as this one. So clearly the way we approach the game actually has the exact opposite effect. I would argue that stricter refereeing would make it less about the refereeing as mandatory laws put the responsibility back onto the player to do the right thing, not onto the referee to not make a subjective decision and 'manage' the supposedly grown and professional adult.
Rant aside, let me talk about an example:
I recently watched a friend's ice hockey semi final. Ice hockey isn't big in Australia, but he plays at a fairly high level. Fairly aggressive, emotional sport, right? He was sinbinned for something. Now, the number of games I've watched I could count on one hand and I thought it was the wrong decision because I could see that the referee thought he saw, didn't actually happen. Talking to him after the match confirmed it. So, sinbinned over a blatantly wrong decision in a semi final. Pretty big.
I was talking to my friend afterwards and said 'I can't believe that there was no argument whatsoever from anybody' (even my friend left the ice without hesitation). He said 'that's because everybody knows that if they said anything they'd be joining me!'
Zero tolerance is applied.
The outcome? Players aren't thinking about the referee. Aren't abusing them, aren't talking about them, aren't blaming them. Everybody is much, much happier.
Compare that to our game - send off a player and that player almost seems obligated to hang around on the pitch for a minute or two, arguing with the referee, whinging to his teammates/opponents, arguing with the referee a bit more, then slowly wander off the pitch. I'd love to see a mandatory suspension increase for ANY delay. And there's no reason why we can't do it.
There is no reason why we cannot implement true ZERO tolerance in this sport. The sport just chooses not to because the administration (including referee), top-down, don't understand the game as much as they think they do. Zero tolerance will make it less about the referee and more about the game. It will mean there are fewer games when the managers, spectators and pundits are ranting about the referee decisions and just getting on with it - and it will mean that play isn't held up for several minutes every time the referee makes a decision while players pointlessly mob the referee. Win-win.
 
I have been sent off twice since the age of 9 when i started playing competitive sport, both times I was hugely disappointed and both times I thought the decision to be wrong but both times I left the field of play without a whisper as I knew that the referee was never going to change his mind and its just foolish to try.

Do I make mistakes, absolutely, Do I make decisions based on what I see and how I interpret what I seey, 100% but I will never change my mind on the advice of a player or CAR so don't understand why players and managers protest so much.

Sadly, I just think its an accepted practice these days and might explain the lack of referees. In fact it is probably the main reason my local league constantly has matches without an appointed match official!
 
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Saturday, I pulled a player up for a foul. He walked away saying the usual "no way a foul blah blah". "Player, that's enough please". "yeah okay, I'm walking away you......" He then grumbles so I can't hear. I call him over and caution him.

I then get his teammate "Ref how can you book him when you haven't heard what he's said?" "That player, is exactly why the card is yellow and not red". Instantly shuts him up!

If you allow the players to treat you with disrespect only slightly, the others catch on to it and will do the same. Stamp it out early.

As a player aswell as a ref, (although I'm not playing at the moment due to a ruptured disc in my back last month), I would respect a refreee more if he stamped it out early.

There is no way on earth that the players words were "Yeah okay, I'm walking away you fine specimen of a referee". I can imagine what came after the "you", I don't think it was nice.

Stamp it out early and save yourself problems later on.
 
Do any of you think the 'stricter' implementation in the top flight from this season has made it any easier for you to implement at an amateur level?

To me it hasn't been implemented consistently enough to do so just yet. Where it has been, it seems to be being well-received by fans - most are starting to get the grasp that the player is an idiot for mouthing off. It just needs to be applied a little more consistently (I'm looking at you, Mr Rooney) .

I had my first game of the season on Sunday and enjoyed it quite a lot, two well-behaved sides. One problem lad, but he took a strop after 30 mins and demanded to be subbed, never to re-appear (I'm sure you can imagine how devasated I was for the loss), but aside from him I don't think I heard any dissent, and even then his were just a couple of throwaway moans. I wouldn't say the two are correlated, though you never know I suppose!
 
Wayne Rooney told Michael Oliver to **** off On Sunday, nothing happened.
Then he does let players headbutt him without sanction so.....
 
There have been a LOT of yellow cards in the PL and FL this season for dissent, and several have resulted in red cards for a second caution. It was never going to be fixed overnight and is going to take time. For whatever reason players have been allowed to get away with murder for years (this isn't a recent thing, think back to Tony Adams with David Elleray in 1989, and it was going on way before that).

You don't fix a problem by trying to go from one extreme to the other, it is never going to work, and in saying that I don't mean football but all aspects of life and business. Rather you introduce a program of change to try to fix it over time - if something has been broken for only a year you might be able to fix it in a couple of months, for something that has been broken for 30+ years it is going to take a couple of years to fix.
 
You don't fix a problem by trying to go from one extreme to the other,.
I don't agree - but you need to go all the way. Even this 'tougher on dissent' is still not even close to being sufficient.
We all know that getting referees to 'be a bit tougher' means there might be a few cards, but in short time it'll go back to the way it always has. Always happens. Going all the way - and sticking with it - is the only way. Players will learn. Spectators will learn.
 
I have spoken to each team I have had this season when doing the boot check, and asked them what they have noticed this season in games they have seen on tv when players show dissent of any sort. They all respond with yellow card. With this planted in their minds I then tell them I don't want to be giving loads of yellow cards for dissent, and telling them if they disagree with decision say nothing, do nothing and get on with the game. I then tell manager to reinforce message, which they have.
This has in the main stopped dissent. I have only had 2 incidents where a player has not heeded what i have said and they have both had yellow card, no warning. I shall continue to do this as I was getting fed up with dissent I was getting last season and this has certainly made my refereeing easier and more enjoyable.
 
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