The Ref Stop

Player Name

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GraemeS said:
Oh that's very interesting. I have to admit to having no official guidance on this, but I have typed in the name of quite a few cautions since moving to Essex - more than 10 at least. And the only contact I've had back from county is when I clicked the wrong name and accidentally assigned a caution to a player who had retired 3 seasons ago.

If I was causing them administration headaches on a weekly basis, I assume someone would have told me to stop by now! Maybe policies are different on a county-by-county basis?
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i do the same @GraemeS in fact my first occurrence of not finding a name in the system, James advised me to proceed exactly the way we do.
 
The Ref Stop
James Long said:
We've never been given guidance to chrck with FA. Im also certain when a referee enters a name it adds to the list. My thought process here is the formatting e.g. you'll have the same name 3 times, once spelt wrong, once in caps and one with no capitalisations at all.

My safety net is I always check against full time. If they arent on there thats when alarm bells would start ringing for me.
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Yeah, that's entirely fair - I had one the other week where I was given a shortened version of the first name and a surname without an "e" on the end, and full-time had a player with the full first name and a surname with an e.
 
DB said:
@GraemeS , we've been specifically told not to do that by our Governance Manager. If a player isn't listed, we contact the FA. As you say, Whole Game therefore creates a new player. That becomes a massive ball ache for the administration side of things.

Also, as per the topic... for me, for anything to fall into the OFFINABUS category, it absolutely depends on what is said, who it's said to and in what manner!
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"Excuse me Mr Referee sir, your consistency of decision is to be admired but can you smooth out the bias towards the opposition and, has your lovely, sociable mother managed to get the name of the father added to your birth certificate, yet?"
That's no swearing and politely said to a match official. What colour?
 
Yampy said:
"Excuse me Mr Referee sir, your consistency of decision is to be admired but can you smooth out the bias towards the opposition and, has your lovely, sociable mother managed to get the name of the father added to your birth certificate, yet?"
That's no swearing and politely said to a match official. What colour?
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Calling a referee a cheat, his mother a whxre and him a bxstard is the same no matter what way it is put and I would find it offensive! RED :redcard:
 
Yampy said:
Exactly. But he was ever so nice and pleasant about it and there was no swearing.
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As @Brian Hamilton correctly says it doesn't mention swearing anywhere in the LOTG, it doesn't have to be a swear word Cheat? Joke? Clown? all red cards to me, none swear words however highly offensive to ME! Everyone has a tolerance and there is a lack of consistency in respect of this although I can guarantee I am consistent with my approach. I once stood and watched a referee being called a Barcelona (Fxcking Cheating Bxastard) he took it, I asked why he said he didn't find it offensive :punch: you mightn't but when a 16 year old rocks up next week and the same player yells it at him then what happens!
 
Padfoot said:
"You're rubbish ref, ruined the game..."

That's disrespectful.....would you dismiss for it?
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No one wants to answer?

Come on.......be brave......who would dismiss for it? Who would caution for it? Who would simply have a word?

Contrary to popular belief....not looking to argue with anyone over this.....genuinely interested to see what people's reactions would be given the Law and guidance as previously posted in this thread?
 
@Padfoot Context to be taken into account...including if he was joking etc however normally 99.9% :redcard: Did have one where player said it to me they were 8-0 down and he was getting booked for USB with 5 to go...was meant as a joke and took it as such!
 
zarathustra said:
Forget future reference, if a player is getting at you over the course of a match then you don't need to wait until they something like this to get the yellow out.

Generally if some one has been getting good on my back but without straying into blatant dissent then have a quiet word with them, if theyou don't listen go for a public warning (you can include the captain here if you think he'll be of any use), then go for a caution if he still doesn't stop.

With some players you could go through the above steps in 15 minutes, so you might end up with a few cautions, but after the first 2-3 teams generally get the message.

It's all a learning get experience.
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Spot on. Its best to react to ALL early dissent, however mild. That reaction doesn't have to be a card of course, but does need to let player (and others) know that dissent won't be tolerated. If it persists there is then less of a reaction to the inevitable cards when they do appear.
 
DB said:
@GraemeS , we've been specifically told not to do that by our Governance Manager. If a player isn't listed, we contact the FA. As you say, Whole Game therefore creates a new player. That becomes a massive ball ache for the administration side of things.

Also, as per the topic... for me, for anything to fall into the OFFINABUS category, it absolutely depends on what is said, who it's said to and in what manner!
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DB - Thanks for that last line, exactly what I think - doubting myself after reading some on here.
 
Padfoot said:
No one wants to answer?

Come on.......be brave......who would dismiss for it? Who would caution for it? Who would simply have a word?

Contrary to popular belief....not looking to argue with anyone over this.....genuinely interested to see what people's reactions would be given the Law and guidance as previously posted in this thread?
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it depends, is he stating fact? :p:cool:

me personally, i'd go with a yellow for dissent ... its certainly not foul, Ior abusive - I wouldn't call it offensive, the only one for me that @Brian Hamilton very kindly posted for us all, is insulting - and as much as insulting is listed as a red card offence - in 99.5% of games I'm not sending for that.

and if an assessor tried to mark me down, i'd simply tell him 'I didn't find it offensive, insulting or abusive' ... Being offended etc. is subjective. It has everything to do with you as an individual or a collective, or a group or a society or a community. Your moral conditioning, your religious beliefs. What offends me may not offend you - therefore you CANNOT mark someone down for seeing this as only dissent and not OFFINABUS.

that's that, argument settled ... lets now move on.
 
I think it's also right to consider what the effect of your actions will be on your match control.

At the risk of sticking my head in the lions mouth, I had one yesterday that I think is a good example of this. I had a player in my ear from early on, so had a quiet word, then brought the captain over and had another word with him. In about the 30th minute I gave a foul against his teammate and he just says "Oh for f**ks sake ref!" It wasn't screamed or said aggressively, but just said with a general air of frustration.

Now, under the letter of the law I could have justified a red card. He used language that is offensive, and that's a straight red, right?

But I made the judgement that my match control would have deteriorated rapidly if I'd gone for a straight red for some colourfully expressed frustration, as then every utterance of a swear word (and it happens in Sunday League!) would have been met with protests from his teammates who would, fairly understandable, be demanding I send players off left and right.

So I gave him a yellow for dissent, which nobody (including the player in question!) moaned about as they'd seen me speak to him with the skipper already. And he was silent for the rest of the game, which passed without major incident.

My general point is that while it's easy to post on an internet message board that abusive language is a red card every time regardless of all else, these decisions aren't made in a vacuum and as the referee you have to judge them within the context of the game, including what affect your decisions will have on your ability to control the rest of the match.

Right, do your worst.....
 
Padfoot said:
No one wants to answer?

Come on.......be brave......who would dismiss for it? Who would caution for it? Who would simply have a word?

Contrary to popular belief....not looking to argue with anyone over this.....genuinely interested to see what people's reactions would be given the Law and guidance as previously posted in this thread?
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"You're rubbish ref, ruined the game..." is one of those phrases that, for me, falls into the 'how and from where it's said' category.

If it's said quietly in passing then, depending on match temperature, my response could be anything from a witty put down (like, 'what, and your shot that hit the corner flag improved the game?!) to a strong word, with or without the captain present.
it's screamed venomously from 50 yards away so that all other players, officials, spectators etc also hear, then easy yellow for me and could even justify a red if I felt it was offensive ... which might well be influenced by whether I felt there was any justification in the accusation!
 
Padfoot said:
No one wants to answer?

Come on.......be brave......who would dismiss for it? Who would caution for it? Who would simply have a word?

Contrary to popular belief....not looking to argue with anyone over this.....genuinely interested to see what people's reactions would be given the Law and guidance as previously posted in this thread?
Click to expand...

If it's been a fairly quiet match and its the first thing this player has said a quiet word.

He screams it at me from half way across the pitch, instant caution.

Obviously theres going to be lots of variables if his team as a whole have been getting at me then I might choose to make an example and caution whether he screams it at me or says it to me.

The only way I'd send someone off for that would be as a second yellow.
 
Charlie Jones said:
it depends, is he stating fact? :p:cool:

me personally, i'd go with a yellow for dissent ... its certainly not foul, Ior abusive - I wouldn't call it offensive, the only one for me that @Brian Hamilton very kindly posted for us all, is insulting - and as much as insulting is listed as a red card offence - in 99.5% of games I'm not sending for that.

and if an assessor tried to mark me down, i'd simply tell him 'I didn't find it offensive, insulting or abusive' ... Being offended etc. is subjective. It has everything to do with you as an individual or a collective, or a group or a society or a community. Your moral conditioning, your religious beliefs. What offends me may not offend you - therefore you CANNOT mark someone down for seeing this as only dissent and not OFFINABUS.

that's that, argument settled ... lets now move on.
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............except where does "foul" come into it - that was dropped from the laws ages ago Mr J!;)
 
Thanks for the honest replies so far......

Brian Hamilton said:
Offensive, insulting or abusive language
Verbal or physical behaviour which is rude, hurtful, disrespectful; punishable by a sending-off (red card)
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Would you all consider it to be disrespectful? I think it certainly is, unless clearly said as a joke........but even i would struggle with a red
 
Padfoot said:
Thanks for the honest replies so far......



Would you all consider it to be disrespectful? I think it certainly is, unless clearly said as a joke........but even i would struggle with a red
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Could easily argue all dissent is disrespectful.

Disputed throw in yesterday, player said to me 'Come on lino, you only have one job to do" - Disrespectful? Yes - Sure ref would have LOVED me calling him over to request a red card for THAT!"
 
PinnerPaul said:
............except where does "foul" come into it - that was dropped from the laws ages ago Mr J!;)
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haha ... you have me there sir! although i'm going to firmly grab my shovel and try to dig myself out of this ... I knew it was taken out, but I was just covering all aspects ...

buying it? :p:p
 
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