The Ref Stop

Barnsley v Forest

The Ref Stop
Wow! Not even close to offside to start with. And probably a deliberate play. Can forgive the deliberate play, but, he's at least 5 yards on side...
 
JamesL said:
Wow! Not even close to offside to start with. And probably a deliberate play. Can forgive the deliberate play, but, he's at least 5 yards on side...
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Being a bit harsh the James. More like a yard on if that. Check the shading line on the grass.

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Good refereeing .

Far too many of us stroll about with ARs simply leaving offside to them.
You should always be aware and mentally referee as if you have no Ars

so its no surprise when the flag goes up, and as shown in this case, you are alert enough ( and strong) to not simply be a robot and blow your whistle aa soon as your arm buzzes



edit, upon watching it again, at grass roots it might be good practise to go over and just confirm the call with the Ar, maybe even if comms in use, just be seen to clear up what happened, before giving the goal.
I have no issues with the AR flag here.
 
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There's a genuinely insightful comment in the replies on twitter (I know, I wouldn't have believed it either!). Because he's a step behind, you can draw a straight line between the AR, the "offside" player and the defender in the middle that actually plays him on - most likely, he literally couldn't see the player in the middle, hence the flag.
 
Justylove said:
It still should be a relatively straightforward decision at that level.
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Have to agree. While what Anubis says is a perfectly good point, with appointed ARs at any level it should hardly happen, and rarely does, at this level, very unusual and sure to attract some negative comments from the observer I would have thought.
 
JamesL said:
Fair. Tbh I just went off a couple of views at full speed and at full speed he looks onside in another postcode. Shows what angles do to your perception.
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On the angles side, you're so right. Not referee related but IS perception related.

QPR v Birmingham - Birmingham had 1 shot on target I thought. A close range diving header that the QPR GK saved.

'My end' of the ground, clear as day on target to me on the night. However all the stats and a respected fan's report afterwards all state that Birmingham had no shots on target.

Howard Webb also has a good story whereby he's convinced that he's wrongly allowed a goal as ball hit strikers arm, warns AR as they come off at HT that there might be a bit of 'discussion' about it on the way to the dressing room. AR looks at him as if he is mad, saying the ball was no where near his arm.

Obvious and long standing 'rule' - NEVER give what you don't see.
 
It's a fairly tight offside call. Doubt very much I'd ever be waving a colleague's flag down in normal circumstances. However, the AR was a yard behind and the flag was exceptionally late when it shouldn't have been. Maybe therefore (and who knows what went on earlier in the game), the AR had lost the R's trust either by, or at that point in time (akin to our CAR tribulations)
 
Big Cat said:
It's a fairly tight offside call. Doubt very much I'd ever be waving a colleague's flag down in normal circumstances. However, the AR was a yard behind and the flag was exceptionally late when it shouldn't have been. Maybe therefore (and who knows what went on earlier in the game), the AR had lost the R's trust either by, or at that point in time (akin to our CAR tribulations)
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of course just based on the clip shown but I thought AR did very well for the first goal, so, my trust in him be sitting pretty high.
 
Big Cat said:
It's a fairly tight offside call. Doubt very much I'd ever be waving a colleague's flag down in normal circumstances. However, the AR was a yard behind and the flag was exceptionally late when it shouldn't have been. Maybe therefore (and who knows what went on earlier in the game), the AR had lost the R's trust either by, or at that point in time (akin to our CAR tribulations)
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Sorry, at this level of officiating, it's not tight at all, it's would fall into the category of a standard call to get right.

Would be interesting to know what the Comms chat was, whether the referee told him to put it down because of the defensive touch, or there was a clarification as to the defender in the middle of the park that he'd not seen, or it was a simple 'brain fade.'

Either way as an AR, it's a major Dev in the offside box which is a heavily weighted competency, so his mark is going to be below standard.

On another note, thought that Geoff Eltringham in the middle had a bit of a shaky start. First half he was a bit close to play and awarded 2 drop balls after he was hit by the ball. He also was right on top of a late challenge by Zinkernagel from Forest and didn't even award a freekick, when it could have been a card.

His penalty award to Barnsley was spot on, he had a long think about it, then correctly gave it for a mix of a tug and trip.

Second half he improved and gave a solid performance and not blowing up for a freekick on the offside call shown was a great move.
 
Justylove said:
Sorry, at this level of officiating, it's not tight at all, it's would fall into the category of a standard call to get right
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That's as maybe, but it certainly wouldn't be a 'standard call' for the Ref to get right. Indeed, the Ref's call would closer approximate to 'chance' in such situations in the long term
Despite the R getting this call right (black & white consideration), what happens in the next game when he does the same and gets it wrong? Or gets it right for that matter, but forfeits MC in the process?
The AR is a specialist at his job. Why would the R back himself to do a better job from the middle of the park? It's a bad gamble IMO and an insult to the Team; and not a gamble that will pay-off if repeated often. Could the Ref have picked up bonus marks for overruling the AR? Maybe he just took a chance on this one occasion because the AR's signalling was so dubious
 
Big Cat said:
That's as maybe, but it certainly wouldn't be a 'standard call' for the Ref to get right. Indeed, the Ref's call would closer approximate to 'chance' in such situations in the long term
Despite the R getting this call right (black & white consideration), what happens in the next game when he does the same and gets it wrong? Or gets it right for that matter, but forfeits MC in the process?
The AR is a specialist at his job. Why would the R back himself to do a better job from the middle of the park? It's a bad gamble IMO and an insult to the Team; and not a gamble that will pay-off if repeated often. Could the Ref have picked up bonus marks for overruling the AR? Maybe he just took a chance on this one occasion because the AR's signalling was so dubious
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I'm guessing a break down in communication is the most likely issue. Forget the player is onside anyway.
Flag delayed waiting for refs decision on deliberate play. No decision given. Flag up. Ref expecting lino to see deliverate play, over rules.
It's an easy over rule. I'd like to think that we would all be spotting the deliberate play and allowing play to continue. From an AR perspective I want my ref telling the world the defenders played it if I have missed it. Indeed I cover that in my prematch as how I will help with offside.
 
JamesL said:
I'm guessing a break down in communication is the most likely issue. Forget the player is onside anyway.
Flag delayed waiting for refs decision on deliberate play. No decision given. Flag up. Ref expecting lino to see deliverate play, over rules.
It's an easy over rule. I'd like to think that we would all be spotting the deliberate play and allowing play to continue. From an AR perspective I want my ref telling the world the defenders played it if I have missed it. Indeed I cover that in my prematch as how I will help with offside.
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That's what I'm thinking the decision was for, don't think he's ever over ruling on a matter of opinion as to whether on or offside. It's the deliberate play element that's forced the hand.

If the AR is very lucky, he'll get penalised in teamwork as opposed to application of law which won't be quite so damaging for his marks.
 
OK, this discussion has made no sense to me whatsoever... because I didn't see the 'deliberate play' :wtf::moon::facepalm::egg::oops:
Am back in my box after watching it again! Get that Ref promoted FGS
 
Big Cat said:
OK, this discussion has made no sense to me whatsoever... because I didn't see the 'deliberate play' :wtf::moon::facepalm::egg::oops:
Am back in my box after watching it again! Get that Ref promoted FGS
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Hopefully you will only get marked down in team work and not application of law 🙄
 
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