Ref4Me

Yellow Turns to Red

Libano Ref

New Member
Level 5 Referee
Cup semi-final today... Gone to a penalty shootout!

Team A need to score to win, player takes kick before my whistle and scores. Team celebrate, but I ask for a retake. Simple stuff.

He misses the retake, and one of their players starts aiming dissent from the halfway line. I walk to him to give him a yellow and as I'm explaining the booking, he aims abusive language at me.

I've not taken my yellow card out yet, so I then take the red one out and send him off.

When submitting the match report, would you put the yellow for dissent and then a straight red? Or would you just submit the straight red. As mentioned earlier, I did not show my yellow yet at that point as I was writing his name and letting him know what it was for.
 
The Referee Store

RefIADad

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
@LothianRef is exactly right.

I had something similar happen last fall. Player is booked for dissent. He continues to dissent, so I show a second yellow followed by red. He then proceeds to call me a "f***ing joke" several times. I officially recorded the 2CT in my match report, but I also noted the abusive language (specifically noting the language used) that would have been a straight red had I already not sent the player off for the 2CT dissent. The player could have received an additional suspension besides the one match suspension, but he didn't. It wasn't my place, but I would have liked to have seen the abusive language result in an additional suspension (kind of like getting two red cards in a game - get a game suspension for each).

In your case, note the caution for dissent and the straight red send-off for abusive langauge.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Adding yellow to the report could cause issues in any possible hearing (in fact could triggered an appeal) and he could get away with it on a technicality. Since you have not shown the yellow (not communicated it) everyone in and around the filed including assistants or neutrals think it's only a red. I'd only submit the red and avoid any issues.

For future, if you are planning to report both offences, show both cards, clearly communicating they are for seperate offences.

Edit: In general, I'd consider dissent turning into offinabus all in the same incident/stoppage as one event and one offence and just as a red card. For example if you get there and he gives you more dissent, you don't (not expected to) show him two yellows for two seperate dissent events even though technically you could.
 
Last edited:

ARF

RefChat Addict
Adding yellow to the report could cause issues in any possible hearing (in fact could triggered an appeal) and he could get away with it on a technicality. Since you have not shown the yellow (not communicated it) everyone in and around the filed including assistants or neutrals think it's only a red. I'd only submit the red and avoid any issues.

For future, if you are planning to report both offences, show both cards, clearly communicating they are for seperate offences.

Edit: In general, I'd consider dissent turning into offinabus all in the same incident/stoppage as one event and one offence and just as a red card. For example if you get there and he gives you more dissent, you don't (not expected to) show him two yellows for two seperate dissent events even though technically you could.
Can't "appeal" a sending off for OFFINABUS over here, so not a problem ;)

Whether I would include the yellow would probably depend on my mood when I got round to logging into WGS! 😂
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
In general, I'd consider dissent turning into offinabus all in the same incident/stoppage as one event and one offence and just as a red card

Does read like he was in the process of cautioning him, when the offinabus happened. So, I think he has wiggle room here to do both.

I agree, show the cards though.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
In general
Can't "appeal" a sending off for OFFINABUS over here, so not a problem ;)

Whether I would include the yellow would probably depend on my mood when I got round to logging into WGS! 😂
Can't you appeal an administrative error by the referee? For example he showed the wrong card? Or referee thought it was a double yellow but it wasn't? These things happen and there should be means of correcting them. However the point is that, why leave room for any disputes?
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Why would a referee start jogging all the way from the PA to the half way line in the middle of a shoot-out other than to deal with dissent? As soon as he started moving, it was clear what would be happening - I'm with the first few responses, cards are a communication tool, not the only possible way to communicate.
 

Redster

Well-Known Member
In general

Can't you appeal an administrative error by the referee? For example he showed the wrong card? Or referee thought it was a double yellow but it wasn't? These things happen and there should be means of correcting them. However the point is that, why leave room for any disputes?
Not if your report says 'i walked over to caution him for dissent. He then said xxx.@$@$& $_$. I decided that this was offinabus and dismissed the blighter. I did not show the previous yellow card as I was concerned it would cause confusion'
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
No written reports in England any more, so unfortunately clarifying like that isn't going to be an option.
 

Will_A

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
Personally, I’d be classing the initial dissent and subsequent OFFINABUS as one offence and to avoid confusion & complication would be going with just the straight red rather than reporting both.

Whilst it’s not mandatory in law to physically show a yellow card, it has the potential to confuse matters and cause problems/route of appeal.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
I would personally just show and report the red card.

I had one where a player said "you're the worst f***ing ref I've ever seen". Hand went into left pocket to pull yellow at which point he added "and you're a f***ing bald c*** too". Removed left hand from left pocket at the same time as right hand was delving into back pocket to pull the red 😂. I'm pretty sure from memory I only reported the sending off.
 

Referoo

New Member
Level 6 Referee
@LothianRef is exactly right.

I had something similar happen last fall. Player is booked for dissent. He continues to dissent, so I show a second yellow followed by red. He then proceeds to call me a "f***ing joke" several times. I officially recorded the 2CT in my match report, but I also noted the abusive language (specifically noting the language used) that would have been a straight red had I already not sent the player off for the 2CT dissent. The player could have received an additional suspension besides the one match suspension, but he didn't. It wasn't my place, but I would have liked to have seen the abusive language result in an additional suspension (kind of like getting two red cards in a game - get a game suspension for each).

In your case, note the caution for dissent and the straight red send-off for abusive langauge.
Cannot and shouldn't put any caution through as that didn't happen and that could can get you in a load of sh!t. Just the dismissal. Job done.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Cannot and shouldn't put any caution through as that didn't happen and that could can get you in a load of sh!t. Just the dismissal. Job done.
Did the caution not happen though? A caution is not issued by the act of showing a card, so what part of the OP's story is leading you to conclude the caution didn't happen?
 

Referoo

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Showing the yellow card did not happen physically, although the cautioning procedure started. It's an easy sell, you're given OFFINABUS, dismissal and simplification of any confusion that can be created. Even the bench would know:"Oh, he's been sent off, must have swore at the referee..."
Also makes you match report easier.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
But the player sequentially committed dissent and OFFINABUS. Why is the recommendation to ignore the first of those offences, be inaccurate in your reporting and therefore as a result, benefit the player?
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Did the caution not happen though? A caution is not issued by the act of showing a card, so what part of the OP's story is leading you to conclude the caution didn't happen?

You play advantage on a reckless challenge. You then forget to show him a yellow card or let him know at the next stoppage. 10 minutes later you remember. Do you then show him a yellow or just tell him? Or neither. Is he now on a caution?

What if you only remember after he commits another cautionable offence? Did the first caution happen?

I know it's not entirely the same as the OP, but it illustrates 'counting' a caution that was not communicated is a slippery slope. There may well be cases that you should count/record them, but OP or my examples are not one of them.
 

Referoo

New Member
Level 6 Referee
At the beginning of my refereeing I was going too much into detail when submitting my report. Now I keep it simple. Put the dismissal through as S6.
Not sure what you mean by:"benefit the player"!
Do you refer that his club should pay separately for both cards? You would be right with that then.
 

ARF

RefChat Addict
Having re-read the OP, as the player has been informed that he is being cautioned prior to committing the sending off offence, I really can see no reason why the caution shouldn't be reported as well as the red card.
 
Top