Wolves vs City

[RefIADad]

The fact that an offside offense cannot be considered until Stones contacts the ball makes this a legal goal for me. By the time Stones heads the ball, Silva is not interfering with Sa’s ability to make the save.

If this was a cross in the run of play, we may have a different discussion.

 

[bloovee]

Is this going to be a KMI error for the AR as he indicated goal to match referee & then was obviously told to raise his flag?

If he was told to raise his flag

1. Who told him to?
2. How long after?

Is there a clip of the flag going up? It's at least four seconds after the goal. CK does not look as if he's expecting a flag.

All quite odd.

 

[Gabriel]

It's at least four seconds after the goal

I can assure you it was a lot longer than 4 seconds between the goal being scored and initially disallowed!

 

[es1]

They're (ref and AR) having a discussion to decide if silva is offside.

I posted a clip from talk sport where the commentator noticed the flag

 

[JamesL]

This angle shows perfectly the correct decision was made.

 

[RefereeX]

Despite the fact I had a 1-1 draw with 4 point confidence in Forecast Fifties(TM), the goal was very clearly correct to stand for me. Quite shocked by a BBC poll where only 29% have said it should stand. This is the battle we face, because I find it hard to believe 71% of people all correctly understand the law and still all believe this should have been disallowed. Lack of knowledge / understanding is still our biggest enemy. People are still saying that Silva was jostling with the keeper, but as has been said, he stops before offside can be considered, so unless you're saying it's a foul, that is 100% irrelevant.

 

[Russell Jones]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the answer to #1 will be the Referee (entirely normal practice on these types of decisions). If it took a little longer than normal then that's likely caused by the role unfamiliarity as a result of the switch between AR & 4O

1. Who told him to?
2. How long after?

Is there a clip of the flag going up? It's at least four seconds after the goal. CK does not look as if he's expecting a flag.

All quite odd.

 

[bloovee]

Despite the fact I had a 1-1 draw with 4 point confidence in Forecast Fifties(TM), the goal was very clearly correct to stand for me. Quite shocked by a BBC poll where only 29% have said it should stand. This is the battle we face, because I find it hard to believe 71% of people all correctly understand the law and still all believe this should have been disallowed. Lack of knowledge / understanding is still our biggest enemy. People are still saying that Silva was jostling with the keeper, but as has been said, he stops before offside can be considered, so unless you're saying it's a foul, that is 100% irrelevant.

It's a BBC poll. Maybe they should distinguish between respondents who thought it should be disallowed and those who wanted it to be disallowed - like the neutral sportswriters in that studio clip!

 

[RefereeX]

View attachment 7678

This angle shows perfectly the correct decision was made.

Incidentally, looking at that photo, it's not difficult to see why the on field decision was (eventually) offside. Allowing for a touch of flash lag as Silva is moving to his right, he's almost perfectly between CK and the goalkeeper, so easy to see why CK would think with his half of the information that Silva was in the line of vision of the GK.

 

[RefIADad]

I think the possible reason is quite obvious when you think about it.

The high possibility would of been City would be dominant so more potential decisions would be at their end of the pitch so put the experienced linesman there instead of a rookie. Seems a sensible decision too me.

Two big problems with this.

1) If a Premier League assistant referee is good enough to be on a game, why can't that AR handle a half with a good team constantly attacking?
2) Each team should have one half with each AR. Every AR will have slightly different viewpoints, so having the same AR work one team for all 90 minutes does not seem appropriate.

The only time I have ever switched ARs was because of injury.

 

[RefIADad]

Despite the fact I had a 1-1 draw with 4 point confidence in Forecast Fifties(TM), the goal was very clearly correct to stand for me. Quite shocked by a BBC poll where only 29% have said it should stand. This is the battle we face, because I find it hard to believe 71% of people all correctly understand the law and still all believe this should have been disallowed. Lack of knowledge / understanding is still our biggest enemy. People are still saying that Silva was jostling with the keeper, but as has been said, he stops before offside can be considered, so unless you're saying it's a foul, that is 100% irrelevant.

A fan poll about referee decisions has as much credibility as me commenting on a poll about whether surgeons do their job correctly. Shame on the BBC for generating controversy for clicks.

 

[UncleGoon]

View attachment 7678

This angle shows perfectly the correct decision was made.

Had an interesting debate on this after the game yesterday and would like to get your guys views on the following scenario:

Free kick on edge of box,
Wall and offside line around penalty spot,
Bernardo silva does exactly the same: stands right in front of the keeper, then as the taker’s approaching the ball he bumps back into the keeper, then dives out of the way a split second before the taker makes contact with the ball (same amount of time as before stones’ head made contact) so he’s out of line of sight at the time the kick’s taken, and it flies in. You have the same freeze frame as above showing he was out of line of sight at point of contact.

Should/would/could this be allowed? My instinct says no, and fairly obviously, but if yesterday’s goal was deemed ok then I don’t see why not?

Secondly if pgmol come out and say the goal yesterday was correctly awarded, do you think we’ll see teams trying this?

 

[Joe Harrison]

Two big problems with this.

1) If a Premier League assistant referee is good enough to be on a game, why can't that AR handle a half with a good team constantly attacking?
2) Each team should have one half with each AR. Every AR will have slightly different viewpoints, so having the same AR work one team for all 90 minutes does not seem appropriate.

The only time I have ever switched ARs was because of injury.

There was an injury.

Richard West, an SG1 Specialist Assistant, became injured at the ground and took over fourth official duties.

Tom Bramall is a SG1 Referee. Tom is unlikely to have acted as an Assistant Referee at any time in the recent past, yet he had to take over.

For me, this just reinforces a necessity at Premier League level, to have a reserve assistant referee (like they do in later rounds of the FA cup, play off finals etc).

Obviously a significant resourcing issue, and some may argue that VAR negates the need for this, but having a National Group AR at the ground to assist the fourth/help manage the technical areas under normal circumstances, and then run a line if needed, may be beneficial.

I believe this is the third injury to a Premier League AR across 23/24 and 24/25.

 

[RefIADad]

There was an injury.

Richard West, an SG1 Specialist Assistant, became injured at the ground and took over fourth official duties.

Tom Bramall is a SG1 Referee. Tom is unlikely to have acted as an Assistant Referee at any time in the recent past, yet he had to take over.

For me, this just reinforces a necessity at Premier League level, to have a reserve assistant referee (like they do in later rounds of the FA cup, play off finals etc).

Obviously a significant resourcing issue, and some may argue that VAR negates the need for this, but having a National Group AR at the ground to assist the fourth/help manage the technical areas under normal circumstances, and then run a line if needed, may be beneficial.

I believe this is the third injury to a Premier League AR across 23/24 and 24/25.

That makes total sense now. Thanks for sharing. Under those circumstances, I do agree that switching ARs was a logical decision.

I don’t think resources would allow for a reserve AR even at the Premier League level. But I do feel like referees need to have some reasonable level of AR experience for events like this. I get it would be odd to see Michael Oliver or Anthony Taylor running a League Two line every so often. But one of the primary job duties of a fourth official is to replace one of the three on-field officials in the event of incapacitation.

 

[Ori]

Haven’t seen the full clip yet, just some stills. But bear in mind the only potential offside offence starts on the header. On the point of contact on the header, Silva has moved at this point and goalkeeper has a clear unobstructed view of the ball

Guess it comes down to your interpretation of interference. But I’d say it’s a correct call

View attachment 7675

Yeah, but he has to take account of the player next to him who might try and head the ball. I can’t see this not being interference.

 

[RefereeX]

Yeah, but he has to take account of the player next to him who might try and head the ball. I can’t see this not being interference.

Silva isn't in an offside position until the header is played, the header was from a corner, so he wasn't even in an offside position up to that point...

 

[DavidObs]

Yeah, but he has to take account of the player next to him who might try and head the ball. I can’t see this not being interference.

The thing is the bar is now set so high. Anything below the PL would be offside, but with VAR accessibility, these are not given in the PL.

 

[Matthew]

Yeah, but he has to take account of the player next to him who might try and head the ball. I can’t see this not being interference.

You can't judge interference by reference to what a player may or might do. To be interfering with Sa, he would have to be doing one of the following:

"interfering with an opponent by:

• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball"

Bernardo isn't doing any of those things at the point Stones heads the ball, so he can't be offside.

 

[one]

Silva isn't in an offside position until the header is played, the header was from a corner, so he wasn't even in an offside position up to that point...

Technically this is not correct. As soon as the ball is further away from the goal line than him, then he IS in an offside position. But he has not committed the offside offence even if interfering because the offence does not apply to corner kicks.
Once the header is made, he is still in offside position but not committing an offence because he is not interfering.

 

[Big Cat]

Unfortunately, I was a 'first responder' to this OP, hence my posts are now way off the mark given the findings of the subsequent inquest discussion
I hereby apologize to the PGMOL for any offence or distress

In hindsight, I think it's just a poor on-field decision given the absence of appeal from the defensive side (GK). The jigsaw had that piece missing and that was arguably the biggest clue available to reach the correct decision. Easy innit?