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Why don’t we learn from rugby?

Robjh777

New Member
Though I’ve played and followed football for most of my life I’m also involved with rugby.
Can someone please tell me why we allow players to abuse us like they do?
Surely if a stand is taken and the players were to be penalised things would change very quickly.
 
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Because until fairly recently there was very little money in rugby, and even now it is nowhere near what there is in top levels of football. Even the top players are struggling to get much over £500k per year, top footballers are getting close to that in a week. Now, of course money shouldn't matter, but football has long been the case that it most definitely does, the Premier League fund everything and they just would not stand by and see these multi-million pound superstars miss three games because they couldn't keep their mouth in check. Likewise Sky and BT wouldn't accept games being ruined by the referee when he sends off someone for swearing (of course the player rather than referee ruined it, but they wouldn't see it that way). Not right I know, but it is reality.

The sad reality is that no one in charge of top level football would stick their head above the parapets and propose such as thing, as it would inevitably be shot off and they would be out of a job pretty quickly.
 
Because until fairly recently there was very little money in rugby, and even now it is nowhere near what there is in top levels of football. Even the top players are struggling to get much over £500k per year, top footballers are getting close to that in a week. Now, of course money shouldn't matter, but football has long been the case that it most definitely does, the Premier League fund everything and they just would not stand by and see these multi-million pound superstars miss three games because they couldn't keep their mouth in check. Likewise Sky and BT wouldn't accept games being ruined by the referee when he sends off someone for swearing (of course the player rather than referee ruined it, but they wouldn't see it that way). Not right I know, but it is reality.

The sad reality is that no one in charge of top level football would stick their head above the parapets and propose such as thing, as it would inevitably be shot off and they would be out of a job pretty quickly.
Spot on. I've been echoing this root cause since the World Cup
 
Anyone see Jordan Henderson tell the ref to FO in the highlights of the Liverpool game, 2 yards away!!
 
or most of my life I’m also involved with rugby.
Can someone please tell me why we allow players to abuse us like they do?

Well... I don't think rugby is immune from abuse especially at grassroots. I've heard plenty of horror stories of parents abusing rugby officials on the junior level matches just as much as I've heard it in footballing circles.
 
Well... I don't think rugby is immune from abuse especially at grassroots. I've heard plenty of horror stories of parents abusing rugby officials on the junior level matches just as much as I've heard it in footballing circles.

I have a step son who plays rugby and it's not quite as saintly on a match day as it's perceived! It is without question better than football in terms of the discipline from all stakeholders and incidents are much rarer but there are still plenty of issues with parents and refs etc. One big difference is that the ref is one of the coaches and not an independent appointed person like football, so you do get alot of perceived bias by parents and players. Last Sunday the ref played advantages lasting a minute, even when the other team had the ball. This is fine in adult rugby but when he did blow and then explained to the kids in ridiculous detail what the offence was for, they couldn't remember the original incident! This caused problems with parents shouting for him to blow the whistle and forget the long advantages (especially when the team who's being penalised has the ball and is very unlikely to just give it back to make the advantage worthwhile). Public criticism of the ref is relatively rare and is stamped out by most coaches as is dissent by the players bit it still goes on, don't kid yourself that it doesn't.

The biggest issue is the reducing number of players (like all sports), so some of the teams daren't be critical of poor behaviour of kids and their parents as they're down to bare bones on players and don't want to upset them so it's slowly going like football and thats been noticeable in the 4 years I've been going to kids rugby.
 
I've got friends who are rugby referees and they have also said it isn't quite as rosy as everyone is making out. Perhaps at the top level, but grass roots appears to be suffering from the break down in society values just as football is.

It isn't the ability of the referees in top level football that is the problem, the likes of Mike Dean and Phil Dowd previously can / could mix it as well as anyone when it comes to putting players in their place. The difference is they aren't really allowed to, whereas when Nigel Owens does it he is positively encouraged.
 
I've got friends who are rugby referees and they have also said it isn't quite as rosy as everyone is making out. Perhaps at the top level, but grass roots appears to be suffering from the break down in society values just as football is.

It isn't the ability of the referees in top level football that is the problem, the likes of Mike Dean and Phil Dowd previously can / could mix it as well as anyone when it comes to putting players in their place. The difference is they aren't really allowed to, whereas when Nigel Owens does it he is positively encouraged.
And there's the key...Nigel Owen's is encouraged to do it. Nigel Owen's is miked up and all can hear. Nigel Owen's mike could also be open and broadcast the filth that professional players speak. Now I wonder what would happen if we let that ride for a season in professional football?
 
Culturally they're different and always have been.

How often do you see opposing football fans all sat/stood next to each other at matches like you do at rugby? :rolleyes:

My own take on it, is that rather than the other way around, rugby is learning from football in terms of behaviour.

It's not uncommon now to see players appealing to the referee all the time at rucks/mauls and scrummages. In my day as a rugby player, nobody but the team captain dared speak to the referee. Practically every time an attacking field kick is lofted up in the air and the kicker gives chase through a throng of opposing team's players, you'll see him dramatically hurl himself to the floor at the slightest contact, claiming he was obstructed/played off the ball. And don't mention the number of foreign players in our game at the top level now!!! :rolleyes:

No, I'm afraid rugby will ultimately become more and more like football with each passing year. :confused:
 
Culturally they're different and always have been.

How often do you see opposing football fans all sat/stood next to each other at matches like you do at rugby? :rolleyes:

My own take on it, is that rather than the other way around, rugby is learning from football in terms of behaviour.

It's not uncommon now to see players appealing to the referee all the time at rucks/mauls and scrummages. In my day as a rugby player, nobody but the team captain dared speak to the referee. Practically every time an attacking field kick is lofted up in the air and the kicker gives chase through a throng of opposing team's players, you'll see him dramatically hurl himself to the floor at the slightest contact, claiming he was obstructed/played off the ball. And don't mention the number of foreign players in our game at the top level now!!! :rolleyes:

No, I'm afraid rugby will ultimately become more and more like football with each passing year. :confused:

The appealing at the ruck is depressing. Rugby is a bit more forward thinking and proactive than football, as we've seen with VAR and concussion management. Far less resistant to change. But I agree that with an increase in money will come a decrease in behavioural standards from all concerned :(
 
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All we can do is deal with it as we see fit in our matches. Unfortunately, I can’t see it changing at the top level so all we can do is try our best to make a difference in our leagues for next weeks ref
 
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