Why do I bother

[MDempster]

This morning was one of “those” games. Red v blue and all was going well with very few foul tackles.
In 54th minute with the score at 1-5 blue are attacking and blue 9 gets goal side. Red 12 slides in to tackle and does well to get the ball, blue 9 managed to stay on his feet despite stumbling and is set to be 1-on1 with the keeper. Red 12 flicks a foot up, tripping blue 9. I award the free kick on edge of penalty area and send off red 12 for DOGSO.

That was when the game turned. Every decision against red was met with a chorus of comments. After a couple I had word with one player and advised that if he did it again I would sin bin, I then spoke to the captain and told him he needed to regain control of his players or they would receive a sin bin for dissent.

With 5 minutes to go, red 6 handles on the edge of the penalty area so I caution for SPA as there was no definitive way to determine blue would be in a clear goal scoring opportunity. This seemed to be the cue for a number of red to question every decision I had made, I sin binned the player I spoke to earlier. This decision should have been sold as I made it clear earlier I would not tolerate it, but they saw fit to berate even more. I then ended up sin binning a further 2 red layers for dissent in the incident and they finished the game with 7 players.

Now in my mind, I got all the calls right in law, but now I’m home I’m starting to question my own performance. Is this normal? Is there anything I could have done to prevent this level of dissent escalating?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

This morning was one of “those” games. Red v blue and all was going well with very few foul tackles.
In 54th minute with the score at 1-5 blue are attacking and blue 9 gets goal side. Red 12 slides in to tackle and does well to get the ball, blue 9 managed to stay on his feet despite stumbling and is set to be 1-on1 with the keeper. Red 12 flicks a foot up, tripping blue 9. I award the free kick on edge of penalty area and send off red 12 for DOGSO.

That was when the game turned. Every decision against red was met with a chorus of comments. After a couple I had word with one player and advised that if he did it again I would sin bin, I then spoke to the captain and told him he needed to regain control of his players or they would receive a sin bin for dissent.

With 5 minutes to go, red 6 handles on the edge of the penalty area so I caution for SPA as there was no definitive way to determine blue would be in a clear goal scoring opportunity. This seemed to be the cue for a number of red to question every decision I had made, I sin binned the player I spoke to earlier. This decision should have been sold as I made it clear earlier I would not tolerate it, but they saw fit to berate even more. I then ended up sin binning a further 2 red layers for dissent in the incident and they finished the game with 7 players.

Now in my mind, I got all the calls right in law, but now I’m home I’m starting to question my own performance. Is this normal? Is there anything I could have done to prevent this level of dissent escalating?

Someone who made it to Level 3, dropped off the list and made it back to Level 3 once said to me. If it looks like a caution, feels like a caution, sounds like a caution, then its a caution. Sometimes when we don't recognise those moments is when it all goes wrong.

From your description, the decision to dismiss was correct. Maybe at that time a word to the red captain might have seen a sin bin shortly afterwards for that "one" player. This could have made a difference.

Don't always wait until the pot boils over before turning down the heat. By that time, you probably can't get near the cooker and the house burns down.

 

[gvu_ref]

Stuart Atwell got his decision right in law this afternoon to send off sinisterra for a deliberate trip followed by an act of ****-housery. But his afternoon was visibly unenjoyable.

He will probably look back on his game and think “I could of done better there, and been more proactive.” But in the same breath the players know a deliberate trip and delaying the restart both warrant yellow cards. And two yellow cards mean you get an early bath. Both Villa and Leeds wanted a scrappy game taking chunks out of each other, very little the ref can do about that really.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, sometimes applying the law gets you earache. You can’t control how players behave, but you can keep thinking “where’s my next problem coming from” and try to help avoid problems developing. (Ie if Stuart had got closer to where the foul occurred and gestured for opposition to move 10 yards away, sinisterra may have remained on the pitch.)

You said in your post “Every decision against red was met with a chorus of comments.” That first chorus, I’d of stopped the game for a minute, pulled both captains, and gone “next comment on a decision has a 10 minute rest, please keep your team in check and on the pitch.” That sets up your first sin bin, and MAYBE gives the minute break and empowerment of captains that is needed to calm and reset for both teams. If they start moaning about decisions in the past I would entertain the conversation for a few seconds, explain what I saw and end with “agree to disagree, let’s move on from it and play ok.”

I think if you’ve ended up sin-binning more than one in quick succession it’s like the sin bin hasn’t actually helped, and it becomes a bit of a joke to them, especially 5-1 down, an element of “well it can’t get much worse anyway.” A possible learning point is, sin bin before the chorus starts, sin bin the first moaner, don’t leave it until they all join in.

All speculation though, they may have been an uncontrollable bunch of animals, which, we all know being in the middle of is absolute graft.

Chin up and go again

 

[one]

Brian has spoken.

Don't beat yourself up. There are things you could have done differently which were unlikely to have made a difference. Nonetheless you them. Sometimes players are hellbent to take the game to the gutter and there isn't much you could do.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Stuart Atwell got his decision right in law this afternoon to send off sinisterra for a deliberate trip followed by an act of ****-housery. But his afternoon was visibly unenjoyable.

He will probably look back on his game and think “I could of done better there, and been more proactive.” But in the same breath the players know a deliberate trip and delaying the restart both warrant yellow cards. And two yellow cards mean you get an early bath. Both Villa and Leeds wanted a scrappy game taking chunks out of each other, very little the ref can do about that really.

Before yesterday, Stuart Atwell was the best referee I've seen at Leeds all season but I'm sure he didn't enjoy his game. I don't think any referee would have; it was Sunday League fare. I educated one gobshite to the front of me and spoke to another to the side. Man in front had a mature discussion and listened to my explanation. Man to the side (mid 20s - probably head coach of RB Salzburg on FIFA or summat) continued to bray abuse at Atwell and the excellent Darren Cann for the remainder of the the match.

His awareness around the second Sinisterra card was excellent. He knew what had happened, who had done it and what the outcome needed to be. He even looked for Villa to gain some sort of progress up the field so he could just talk to the offender and maybe take a small hit on his marks. Never happened.

He had obviously forgotten that he had already cautioned him earlier in the game for a challenge and his body language screamed that. The look on his face (which I saw from about 20 yards away) was that of a man who had a dirty job and knew he was the only one who could do it.

 

[gvu_ref]

Before yesterday, Stuart Atwell was the best referee I've seen at Leeds all season but I'm sure he didn't enjoy his game. I don't think any referee would have; it was Sunday League fare. I edicated one gobshite to the front of me and spoke to another to the side. Man in front had a mature discussion and listened to my explanation. Man to the side (mid 20s - probably head coach of RB Salzburg on FIFA or summat) continued to bray abuse at Atwell and the excellent Darren Cann for the remainder of the the match.

His awareness around the second Sinisterra card was excellent. He knew what had happened, who had done it and what the outcome needed to be. He even looked for Villa to gain some sort of progress up the field so he could just talk to the offender and maybe take a small hit on his marks. Never happened.

He had obviously forgotten that he had already cautioned him earlier in the game for a challenge and his body language screamed that. The look on his face (which I saw from about 20 yards away was that of a man who had a dirty job and knew he was the only one who could do it.

For clarity, I was not criticising Atwell. I just thought it was a fitting example, and demonstrates it happens to the best.

 

[lalec03]

This morning was one of “those” games. Red v blue and all was going well with very few foul tackles.
In 54th minute with the score at 1-5 blue are attacking and blue 9 gets goal side. Red 12 slides in to tackle and does well to get the ball, blue 9 managed to stay on his feet despite stumbling and is set to be 1-on1 with the keeper. Red 12 flicks a foot up, tripping blue 9. I award the free kick on edge of penalty area and send off red 12 for DOGSO.

That was when the game turned. Every decision against red was met with a chorus of comments. After a couple I had word with one player and advised that if he did it again I would sin bin, I then spoke to the captain and told him he needed to regain control of his players or they would receive a sin bin for dissent.

With 5 minutes to go, red 6 handles on the edge of the penalty area so I caution for SPA as there was no definitive way to determine blue would be in a clear goal scoring opportunity. This seemed to be the cue for a number of red to question every decision I had made, I sin binned the player I spoke to earlier. This decision should have been sold as I made it clear earlier I would not tolerate it, but they saw fit to berate even more. I then ended up sin binning a further 2 red layers for dissent in the incident and they finished the game with 7 players.

Now in my mind, I got all the calls right in law, but now I’m home I’m starting to question my own performance. Is this normal? Is there anything I could have done to prevent this level of dissent escalating?

This happens to me quite commonly, just this weekend I gave a penalty for a trip and the defending team went mad, questioning my every move and decision for the rest of the game. I had my first season doing men's football last season, and I got this a lot, the conclusion I come to is that If I am able to explain decisions to players, and I can explain my thinking, my perspective, and apply the LOTG, then it was a good decision. I know its a bad decision if I have succumbed to pressure or acted without thinking, and thus I cannot explain. I would say now that it is up to the players to empathise with my view after I explain it to them, if they don't, and react poorly, then I should not go home thinking that I've had a bad performance.

 

[JamesL]

It's a common occurrence in football.
In a game I did recently I spotted a red card offence, but it surprised everyone.
I've seen the video back and it is a clear as day red card but most people had followed ball up field so did not see the severity of the foul challenge.
This lead to a very challenging game as home supporters really got on my case and home side appealing for everything and everything was against them.
They got 2 sin bins (at the same time) as a result of their poor behaviour after this and if it weren't for a neutral coach watching then I honestly would have felt i'd had a bad game just because of perception from those involved in it.
You have to trust your gut, and your instinct and know you are delivering decisions honestly and fairly whilst participants try to sway you by questioning your impartiality.
I've had the chance to look back and reflect on the game and I hand on heart feel I did well in a tough game backed up by the coach. Yes I had things to work on, no didn't get every decision right, yes misconduct was heavily weighted to one side but that really was just how the game went and that is sometimes how it is, particularly if one side is having more of the play.

How do we move on? We reflect on what we did well. That really is one of the most important things. We do reflect on where we can improve and that is important but we must also not get lost in development and reward ourselves for the good stuff we do as well.

 

[RustyRef]

It happens every now and again. Sometimes when games are like that something the referee has done or not done has escalated it, but sometimes it is 100% down to the players, very much the case for the Leeds game yesterday.

I had it on a county cup final, one team had very obviously bullied their way to the final and were a complete bunch of thugs, I actually wonder if referees at lower levels were intimidated by them, can't say I would blame them as I would have been far less confident in the middle of a park on my own than in a stadium with three colleagues and half of the CFA there. I couldn't and wouldn't have it, they lost their captain in the first half for two cautions, and his manager followed him down the tunnel not long after for congratulating me on that decision. Don't recall many being for dissent, they just couldn't grasp the fact that I wasn't going to let them get away with going round kicking opponents.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

For clarity, I was not criticising Atwell. I just thought it was a fitting example, and demonstrates it happens to the best.

Oh no, I got that. It was an excellent example.

 

[Refollie]

I came on here today to make more or less exactly the same post.

Drama-free game yesterday until the 44th minute, home team 3-0 down. By the 46th minute, two of the home team had been sin binned, and one of those two was sent off for his choice of words afterwards. By the end of the game they’ve had another sent off, again for his choice of words after being sin binned. The last 20 minutes were essentially a farce.

All this stemmed from an innocuous tackle near the halfway line that the home team felt was a foul (it wasn’t, and it wasn’t controversial in any way).

Unfortunately some games at grassroots particularly are always going to go awry

 

[Viridis1886]

I love this forum. Sometimes you just need to know it's not just you that has this!

 

[Anubis]

Should be consolation that the person who will make least mistakes on the pitch will be the referee.

 

[santa sangria]

Drama free game yesterday in glorious Autumn sun, trees amazing colours, lovely little ground, old wooden tall commentary box at half way, less than a hundred punters, but that's massive for here and like the whole town had turned out. It was all magic until the 88th minute DOGSO!

 

[Wolf_Ref]

Someone who made it to Level 3, dropped off the list and made it back to Level 3 once said to me. If it looks like a caution, feels like a caution, sounds like a caution, then its a caution. Sometimes when we don't recognise those moments is when it all goes wrong.

From your description, the decision to dismiss was correct. Maybe at that time a word to the red captain might have seen a sin bin shortly afterwards for that "one" player. This could have made a difference.

Don't always wait until the pot boils over before turning down the heat. By that time, you probably can't get near the cooker and the house burns down.

Absolutely agree here.

I had a horrible game on Saturday.

12 cautions!! Could have been more.

Also had a team fake a head injury to waste time.

 

[lincs22]

Absolutely agree here.

I had a horrible game on Saturday.

12 cautions!! Could have been more.

Also had a team fake a head injury to waste time.

If you are convinced that the head injury was a fake, you should pass comment back to the league. We all have to take head injuries serious, so when teams try and game it, there may be instances where somebody is injured and we ignore.

@SurreyWolves I suspect they let the player continue and did not have a properly qualified medical person do a Head impact Assessment ?

 

[Wolf_Ref]

If you are convinced that the head injury was a fake, you should pass comment back to the league. We all have to take head injuries serious, so when teams try and game it, there may be instances where somebody is injured and we ignore.

@SurreyWolves I suspect they let the player continue and did not have a properly qualified medical person do a Head impact Assessment ?

I have already complained to the league. Really poor show. Don’t know if they were properly qualified.

But it is such a poor show of sportsmanship. Unfortunately I have refereed this team 3 times in the last year - all of which have been unpleasant and unenjoyable - hence why I have added them to my ‘sod off’ list as I won’t referee them again.

Refereeing for me is a hobby, and I’d rather give up my time for teams who at least try to be respectful.

 

[lincs22]

I have already complained to the league. Really poor show. Don’t know if they were properly qualified.

But it is such a poor show of sportsmanship. Unfortunately I have refereed this team 3 times in the last year - all of which have been unpleasant and unenjoyable - hence why I have added them to my ‘sod off’ list as I won’t referee them again.

Refereeing for me is a hobby, and I’d rather give up my time for teams who at least try to be respectful.

Don’t have a sod off list, have a sod you list….. it sounds you have it already with 12 cautions.

Next time you get them, “go hard, go early” at them. They can either learn to play football and not be prat’s or play for the privilege

 

[RustyRef]

If you are convinced that the head injury was a fake, you should pass comment back to the league. We all have to take head injuries serious, so when teams try and game it, there may be instances where somebody is injured and we ignore.

Or accidentally forget to wave them back on for an accidentally extended period

 

[Wolf_Ref]

Don’t have a sod off list, have a sod you list….. it sounds you have it already with 12 cautions.

Next time you get them, “go hard, go early” at them. They can either learn to play football and not be prat’s or play for the privilege

I will referee them again this season - it is good practice to referee these nasty teams. But I have spoken to the league who are less than impressed with them.

Lots of learning points though - it’s the tough games which magnify any weaknesses!