A&H

WC Final - Argentina vs France

So we're filing this under "law we all agree we can just ignore" rather than "law that makes you LWR if you ignore" then?

I'm sorry, but I still don't particularly find that a satisfying conclusion. Some of these "OK to ignore" laws are going to be fiddly to fix (like the 6-second problem), but I think this is an easy fix: If, after a goal is scored, the referee realises, before play restarts, that an extra person was on the field of play when the goal was scored and that in the referees opinion, that additional person influenced or was involved in scoring of the goal...

I have no problem with codifying referees judgement into law in some situations - I have a problem when it's written as black and white but the expectation is actually that we're supposed to see the grey that isn't there.
I agree with the spirit of your suggestion that we should remove clear instances where the law says do A and everyone does B, particularly where players, coaches, spectators, pundits and officials all prefer and expect B.

Your example highlights why it is not always that simple. As others have said, I think the intention behind the original law was to deal with the wrong number of players being on the pitch, not encroachment, and I think the change has to be to clearly separate the two. Otherwise a team can have 12 players and the goal stands as long as the additional person is not involved in the goal - and by the way if it is a substitution gone wrong, is the player who didn't leave or the player who came on, the additional person ? And if it was a game with no subs cards (everything below Step 1 in England), and you had a 3 on , 3 off scenario, even if you decide substitution not completed means the player who came on is the additional player, how do you then work out which of the 3 who came on is the additional one ?

That also illustrates the challenge of creating a set of laws that is so long and intricate that it becomes counterproductive - further up the thread I gave the example of the offence outside the field of play when the ball is in play section. It is now complicated enough that it is at the stage where I am pretty confident in saying the vast majority of referees don't know it - I reread the Laws reasonably regularly, and each time I do I have to pause and read that section several times to see through the fog. I'd like to see fewer examples of that, not more
 
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Pay me a share of FIFA's billions and I'll dedicate some actual time to thinking it through!

The overall point is I don't see any reason why we should accept this. Hypothetical length of a hypothetical book isn't an argument that holds water for me I'm afraid. And your example of a badly written paragraph that's difficult to parse and memorise is exactly that - a badly written paragraph. If we're looking to improve the laws, my second suggestion would be "don't write sections badly".
 
Interesting law actually because the goal is only disallowed if the referee realises after the goal is scored that there were extra persons on the field of play. If the referee knows about the extra persons on the field of play before the goal is scored, he must allow the goal. How bizarre is that?
 
Interesting law actually because the goal is only disallowed if the referee realises after the goal is scored that there were extra persons on the field of play. If the referee knows about the extra persons on the field of play before the goal is scored, he must allow the goal. How bizarre is that?
not really, as it says elsewhere that a goal doesn’t count if the scoring team infringed before the goal was scored.

but could FIFA maybe give a teeny, tiny bit of the $6 billion they earned on the WC to IFAB to hire a couple of quality editors to help them make the LOTG say what they want them to say. (I’m often reminded of Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland stating that when he uses a word, the word means whatever he wanted it to mean . . . )
 
If the referee knows about the extra persons on the field of play before the goal is scored, he must allow the goal.
The law doesn't say that. In fact, Law 3 is entirely mute about what happens if a person from the goal-scoring team is noticed before the goal is scored. Although, as @socal lurker points out it is indirectly covered in Law 10.
 
Interesting law actually because the goal is only disallowed if the referee realises after the goal is scored that there were extra persons on the field of play. If the referee knows about the extra persons on the field of play before the goal is scored, he must allow the goal. How bizarre is that?
I think this is another case of reading too much into the wording of the law when the law was worded to take care of a generic case (12 players on field when referee hasn't noticed) without think through consequences to more specific cases.
 
That's not a very sound legal argument though, is it?

He's basically saying that two wrongs make a right.

Unless there was more to his remarks, that isn't covered in the article.
 
not really, as it says elsewhere that a goal doesn’t count if the scoring team infringed before the goal was scored.

but could FIFA maybe give a teeny, tiny bit of the $6 billion they earned on the WC to IFAB to hire a couple of quality editors to help them make the LOTG say what they want them to say. (I’m often reminded of Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland stating that when he uses a word, the word means whatever he wanted it to mean . . . )
That's a good point. I read it as the referee only stops play if there is interference but I suppose the referee can allow play to continue and then disallow the goal. But allowing play to continue and then not allowing the goal is even more odd imo - why not stop play straight away as is the case with other offences? I think i need a rest after trying to get my head around this crap
 
That's not a very sound legal argument though, is it?

He's basically saying that two wrongs make a right.

Unless there was more to his remarks, that isn't covered in the article.
I didn’t read It that way. I think he was simply pointing out the inconsistency of folks getting so upset about a trifling offense on one goal while there was a more significant offense on the French goal- neither of which should have been called.
 
I didn’t read It that way. I think he was simply pointing out the inconsistency of folks getting so upset about a trifling offense on one goal while there was a more significant offense on the French goal- neither of which should have been called.
Well yes, but he didn't give any hint whatsoever that he did not consider this to be an error.

If he'd said that it was a trifling offence which didn't deserve punishment, just like the 7 players who were encroaching earlier at the French goal scored by Mbappé, then I think that would have been fine.

But he didn't say that, which I think left it open to the unfortunate interpretation that he was acknowledging an error but saying there was an earlier, more egregious error so it didn't matter.

I doubt that that's the impression he meant to give, but I think it's the way it could come across to people.
 
Well yes, but he didn't give any hint whatsoever that he did not consider this to be an error.

If he'd said that it was a trifling offence which didn't deserve punishment, just like the 7 players who were encroaching earlier at the French goal scored by Mbappé, then I think that would have been fine.

But he didn't say that, which I think left it open to the unfortunate interpretation that he was acknowledging an error but saying there was an earlier, more egregious error so it didn't matter.

I doubt that that's the impression he meant to give, but I think it's the way it could come across to people.
Which is one of the arguments for referees not giving TV interviews, their comments can be interpretated as anyone wants to interpret them.
 
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