A&H

WBA V Man City

Paul_10

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid the lino has made a error with the non offside but the delay of the flag regime is going to raise its head but I found it odd the AR flagged when she did when there was still a chance of a goalscoring opportunity. Sadly I have to put the blame more on the AR, she did not let the attack finish and it got to be put down as an error.
 
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Sian Massey-Ellis is the best in the business, but she’s had a shocker in terms of raising the flag too early there. Poor from West Brom too; the first thing you ever learn is to play to the whistle!
 
More details or a clip? I gather the R let play continue, but defenders stopped? I think we see that more at higher levels because it is so rare that a flag does not result in a whistle.
 
More details or a clip? I gather the R let play continue, but defenders stopped? I think we see that more at higher levels because it is so rare that a flag does not result in a whistle.

Yeah pretty much. WBA players stopped and didn't close the shot.
 
More details or a clip? I gather the R let play continue, but defenders stopped? I think we see that more at higher levels because it is so rare that a flag does not result in a whistle.


Just to add, I just thought it was a bizzare timing to raise the flag as City was still on the ball. This will sadly just give fuel to the fire of people who don't like the flag being raised until the attack is over when Infact, its just an error from the lino.

Fortunately, it had no bearing on the game but if that happened in injury time and cost sides points, there would be uproar.
 
That strikes me as a break down between officials. At the time Sian flags it couldn't really be deemed as a promising attack, but Chris Kavanagh decides to hold off on the whistle. They need to be more in tune, either he whistles immediately on the flag or she delays the flag.

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Video is geoblocked for me. But the attacking team having the ball is not the criteria. As @RustyRef says, it looks like the AR followed protocol, but the R saw something different. While the R was ultimately right about the OS, and players should be playing the whistle not the flag, it’s really not what you want to happen.
 
That strikes me as a break down between officials. At the time Sian flags it couldn't really be deemed as a promising attack, but Chris Kavanagh decides to hold off on the whistle. They need to be more in tune, either he whistles immediately on the flag or she delays the flag.

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But AR did not flag right away though, she delayed it(seemingly because of the protocol) then flagged a few seconds later. I can only assume she flagged because the WBA player then got back into position and thought the goal scoring threat was more or less over?

I think Chris was just about to whistle also it would seem but thankfully for him he didn't. It's unfortunate but I just hope people don't think this is because of the delayed flag protocol as such as I believe 9 times out of 10, its helpful for the game to let a promising move to play out and then check afterwards.
 
Although I think the AR is not blameless, I put the blame on the process. The delayed flag process is meant to be applied to goal scoring opportunities. However PL is applying to most promising attacks. This causes a much longer window of getting things wrong. It also leads to much more disallowed goals.
 
A wrong in law non-event?
It would be correct in law; it would just be one of those situations were the refereeing team has got a matter of fact decision wrong. The ball would never have made it to Cancelo and the ball would never have made it to the back of the net; we would never have known that the incorrect offside decision has cost a goal. It would go down as one of those insignificant offside decisions and wouldn't even make it to the highlights package.
 
It would be correct in law; it would just be one of those situations were the refereeing team has got a matter of fact decision wrong. The ball would never have made it to Cancelo and the ball would never have made it to the back of the net; we would never have known that the incorrect offside decision has cost a goal. It would go down as one of those insignificant offside decisions and wouldn't even make it to the highlights package.
I'm not with you on this one. It's an anti football point of view.
You would rather an assistant gave an early, incorrect flag, directly in opposition to the protocol, which, with the benefit of hindsight, would have ruled out a perfectly legitimate (and very good) goal?
I'm not a massive fan of delay the flag when it is so obvious that any layman can see it is offside, but I do see the clear and obvious benefits (pun intended) when the decisions are tight like this one and are ultimately proved incorrect.
Nothing away from Sian; she has, for a long while, been a standout performer at PL level, and for me she is capable of representing us at a major tournament.
 
I'm not with you on this one. It's an anti football point of view.
You would rather an assistant gave an early, incorrect flag, directly in opposition to the protocol, which, with the benefit of hindsight, would have ruled out a perfectly legitimate (and very good) goal?
I'm not a massive fan of delay the flag when it is so obvious that any layman can see it is offside, but I do see the clear and obvious benefits (pun intended) when the decisions are tight like this one and are ultimately proved incorrect.
Nothing away from Sian; she has, for a long while, been a standout performer at PL level, and for me she is capable of representing us at a major tournament.
You've got me wrong, James. I never said I'd rather an assistant flag incorrectly; of course, I'd rather assistants get decisions correct. I just said that if the referee blows his whistle immediately, we'd never have known that a goal would be scored and nobody would bat an eyelid.

Match officials get decisions wrong all the time; we don't know how many would have led to a goal.
 
You've got me wrong, James. I never said I'd rather an assistant flag incorrectly; of course, I'd rather assistants get decisions correct. I just said that if the referee blows his whistle immediately, we'd never have known that a goal would be scored and nobody would bat an eyelid.

Match officials get decisions wrong all the time; we don't know how many would have led to a goal.
Okay, but for me that's the wrong angle. The learning here is that the AR should have delayed the flag further still and/or the referee should have been communicating hold if he wanted play to develop. They would have already communicated a suspected offside so at that point over to the ref..
Advocating that the referee could have avoided controvorsey by an incorrect decision, with the benefit of hindsight, for me is not the way to look at this scenario
 
Sian Massey-Ellis is the best in the business, but she’s had a shocker in terms of raising the flag too early there. Poor from West Brom too; the first thing you ever learn is to play to the whistle!
Everybody who has ever played football, myself included, has been told this but have you ever seen a player at any level of football pay any attention to it?
 
Everybody who has ever played football, myself included, has been told this but have you ever seen a player at any level of football pay any attention to it?
Forget that though. Anyone who has ever played football doesn't listen to this instruction. They're footballers

Agreeing with everyone regarding Sian. I can't recall the last time I saw her get an offside call wrong

The process is to blame. The Promising Attack was arguably over and CK should've respected Sian's flag. City can turn any situation into a PA and this was just another conflict between VAR and the dynamics of the game
 
Forget that though. Anyone who has ever played football doesn't listen to this instruction. They're footballers

Agreeing with everyone regarding Sian. I can't recall the last time I saw her get an offside call wrong

The process is to blame. The Promising Attack was arguably over and CK should've respected Sian's flag. City can turn any situation into a PA and this was just another conflict between VAR and the dynamics of the game
I can't agree the Promising attack was over. Attacking player is in control of the ball advancing into opponents area.
For me, if play is continuing you are looking at a conclusion (ball out of play) or a defending team intervention and or a complete change in dynamic of the attack (such as a complete switch of play or a breakdown of the existing attack before a new attack launched)
I don't like the process of delay the flag when the players are so obviously offside. But, this was a clear wait and see situation and the problem was not with the VAR process, it was user error, a rare occurrence from Massey-Ellis

Edit: I should also include CK in the user error, these situations require cohesive teamwork, which seemingly fell short here.

We know that on comms AR and ref talk, I guess SME would say offside, and then CK says something like Hold the flag, promising attack.
Something is not right with the timing of the flag and then CKs reluctance to blow, which suggests one was waiting for the other and at this point there was a breakdown in communication/process.
 
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