A&H

Watford v Newcastle

Keeday

Formerly known as 'Ref' on RefereeForum
Joshua King scored in the 87th minute and during his celebration removed his shirt. VAR then disallowed the goal for offside.

No caution was issued to Josh King. Thoughts?

Also I believe this was the first Premier League match to be officiated by a non-British referee in Jarred Gillett from Australia.
 
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Joshua King scored in the 87th minute and during his celebration removed his shirt. VAR then disallowed the goal for offside.

No caution was issued to Josh King. Thoughts?

Also I believe this was the first Premier League match to be officiated by a non-British referee in Jarred Gillett from Australia.
Thoughts...

Doesn't help our cause at grass roots (not that I've had that situation yet).
 
Thoughts...

Doesn't help our cause at grass roots (not that I've had that situation yet).
At grassroots, given there is no VAR and the disallowed goal for offside is based on you/AR judgement, I'd say you have more worries on how many players to caution for dissent over the disallowed goal. And once you have done that then do you really want to deal with more dissent for caution for celebration of a disallowed goal?

I am not saying not to caution but just that sometimes it's better to be technically incorrect than risk losing complete control of a game. Assess the situation and make a decision.

Having said that the OP celebration could have been handled better by the referee team. King got mixed with the spectators too right in front of the AR. The AR should have shown some actions there.
 
Joshua King scored in the 87th minute and during his celebration removed his shirt. VAR then disallowed the goal for offside.

No caution was issued to Josh King. Thoughts?

Also I believe this was the first Premier League match to be officiated by a non-British referee in Jarred Gillett from Australia.
Removal of the shirt is cautionable whether or not the goal stands.
Anubis started a thread on your second point earlier in the week
 
Not seen it but think of it even pre VAR.
guy thinks he has scored, runs around waving top or incites fans etc
Its a caution, even if you rule out the goal.

and yes, we can debate the overseas, how long been in country etc but its factual Dublin is not part of the UK.
 
Good discussion of the general history of why it's a booking, haven't fact checked it. Now Elleray's extended it to include disallowed goals via VAR perhaps he should have a conclusive answer...

@Peter Grove looks like one for you 😊 any ideas?
 
This is from the 2004 minutes.

Screenshot_20210927-221227.jpg


I don't think a specific set this off. It was becoming common trend made even more common after Brandi Chastain's goal celebration after kicking the winning penalty of the 1999 Women’s World Cup. I guess IFAB just didn't like where it was going.
 
Good discussion of the general history of why it's a booking, haven't fact checked it. Now Elleray's extended it to include disallowed goals via VAR perhaps he should have a conclusive answer...

It was, and is still, an offence when the "goal" is disallowed . . . whether or not VAR is being used.
 
It was, and is still, an offence when the "goal" is disallowed . . . whether or not VAR is being used.
Badly worded on my part; 'even if the goal was disallowed' was not added until 2019-20 probably as 'excessive' celebrations where the goal was disallowed were becoming more common with VAR.
 
Badly worded on my part; 'even if the goal was disallowed' was not added until 2019-20 probably as 'excessive' celebrations where the goal was disallowed were becoming more common with VAR.
Probably more common but more likely celebrated until VAR stepped in.
Before VAR if the AR didn't flag then the goal was good and celebrated. And if he didn't any celebration was short lived ie shirt doesn't make it off.
Enter VAR and a goal could be disallowed 2 mins after the shirt had been retrieved from the stands.
 
Anyone had a kid score very late on in a cup semi final, say the first goal with 2 mins to play and have the already cautioned kid dance about waving his top around?
 
@Peter Grove looks like one for you 😊 any ideas?
I can't find too much factually wrong with the article. There was indeed a page on the FIFA website that talked about avoiding excessive displays of joy.

Screenshot_2021_0928_101656.png

One slight quibble with that though, is that while the article is correct about what the FIFA web page said, the FIFA web page was not correct about what was in the Additional Instructions. Whether they thought that wording did rather make them sound like a bunch of killjoys or not I don't know, but the phrase that actually ended up in print said that excessive displays of celebration should be avoided, which is perhaps a slightly less spoilsporty way of saying pretty much the same thing.

As for Elleray saying that he thought it was more to do with avoiding offence to certain cultural or religious sensibilities, all I can say is that if it was, that certainly wasn't reflected in anything FIFA or the IFAB said at the time.
 
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