A&H

Tottenham v West Ham - West Ham second goal

Russell Jones

Russell Jones

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Offside or not offside???

Emotionally, feels like he HAS to be offside because his jumping to try and head the ball clearly distracts both Danny Rose and Lloris. But by the strict LOTG, the only valid reason I could muster to flag it would be if he obstructed Rose's view of the ball as it came over.

Intrigued to hear others' views ....
 
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I posted a similar scenario that happened in a game I was assistant on last year. I gave the offside. A lot on here (or was it on the Referee Forum) thought I was wrong !
 
For me, it's a goal.

He certainly doesn't commit any offence relating to interfering with an opponent in terms of Lloris as he is nowhere near him and doesn't prevent him from seeing or attempting to play the ball.

It's a little less clear with Rose though I have to admit. However, given the ball is swinging high in the air and Rose makes no effort at all to attempt to play the ball but instead just sticks his arm in the air I don't think that Valencia actually interferes with him directly.
 
Still haven't watched the highlights. But interested on people's opinion on Kane's goal as well. Big Sam saying as soon as the keeper saved the penalty the ref should blow for full time. Seems like nonsense to me. But as a Spurs fan I'm bound to say that.
 
Only if the referee has made clear that he is extending there game for the taking of the penalty kick. In 19 years I've done it once and probably wouldn't again as its a nightmare if the penalty is saved!! ;)
 
The latest directions from UEFA (and, it would appear) the USSF seem to suggest that if you make a play for the ball (much like the player in this scenario), then you're now interfering with the play.
 
AlexF said:
The latest directions from UEFA (and, it would appear) the USSF seem to suggest that if you make a play for the ball (much like the player in this scenario), then you're now interfering with the play.
Click to expand...
Where can we reference this ?
 
Big Sam is talking nonsense .. which isn't exactly shock new news :).

And @ASM, to me the fact that Rose is (stupidly) standing there with his hand in the air, suggests that Valencia's interefering with him quite a lot. If @AlexF is correct then I'll be really pleased as it moves us a little closer to 'common sense' refereeing of offside!
 
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball
touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee,
involved in active play by:
• interfering with play or
• interfering with an opponent or
• gaining an advantage by being in that position


To me, Sakho is interfering with an opponent (Rose) AND gaining an advantage (trying to score). Offside.
 
Duncan Francis said:
Where can we reference this ?
Click to expand...
I can't find the USSF reference handily (mostly because the instruction to that end hasn't really started as yet), but one of the PRO ARs had a discussion on twitter about it stating that some instances they had last year that PRO considered offside (when a player "flinched toward the ball as if he were going to play it") were now to be considered offside as the player had made a play on the ball.

I'll see if I can't find a link to that conversation though...

The Law 11 website (which seems to include the newest UEFA instructions) has this page on the "attempt to play the ball":
http://www.law-11.com/attempt-to-play-the-ball
 
The Bstard said:
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball
touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee,
involved in active play by:
• interfering with play or
• interfering with an opponent or
• gaining an advantage by being in that position
To me, Sakho is interfering with an opponent (Rose) AND gaining an advantage (trying to score). Offside.
Click to expand...
However, further through the LOTG theses things are defined:
Definitions
In the context of Law 11 – Offside, the following definitions apply:
• “interfering with an opponent” means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s
line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball.
• “gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball
i. that rebounds or is deflected to him off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent having been in an offside position
ii. that rebounds, is deflected or is played to him from a deliberate save by an opponent having been in an offside position.

So Valencia (not Sakho - he scores the goal) is definitely not gaining an advantage according to the LOTG - he has to play the ball for that to happen.
It would be difficult to suggest that Valencia is preventing Rose from playing the ball as Rose doesn't even try to do so - he just sticks his hand in the air. I think if Rose had jumped with Sakho rather than standing and admiring him he would probably have got the offside decision as Sakho's challenge from an off-side position could have been seen to prevent Rose from playing the ball.
Fair goal. Poor defending by Rose.
 
@McTavish, I'm pretty confident that according to the current technical definition of the Law you're correct.

Which is why the sooner the law gets further 'improved' the better ... because emotionally it feels all wrong that someone who tries (and very nearly suceeds!) to play the ball from an offside position , in the process impacting the behaviour and mindset of at least two defenders, should be viewed in this way.
 
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