RefSix

They even themselves out...

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
#1
Both assistants replaced late before today's game. AR1 just not up to it. Behind the play. Dithering with subs. Not inspiring confidence. AR2 young trained and sharp... but... Not the most technical game on a hard uneven grass pitch. Not so much happened until...

End of first half, whites are the better team but are 2 down, white through ball into the box, left by the first player, AR2 offside flag up, I whistle, 2nd player slots home. Of course, he wasn't offside. Terrible flag. No wait and see. I made it worse by quickly whistling even though I could see the player leave the ball and I knew there should not have been a whistle. There was a surreal moment where AR2 had his flag up and then he made the "put your flag down" gesture with the other hand as I whistled. Bizarre! Basically my biggest disaster of the season and my first wrongly disallowed goal in 5 years of serious reffing. I've allowed a few wrongly but not disallowed AFAIK!

Start of second half, carbon copy. Same ball in the channel into the box, first player leaves it, AR2 flag up, I whistle, again fully conscious, second player slots home, for the blues! The second worst moment of my time as a ref and another wrongly disallowed goal. Again, terrible flag, and again, I saw the action, and whistled. Terrible, terrible.

It stayed 2-0. I'm gutted. We discussed it. AR2 gutted too. Yes, bad flags. But my fault for blowing. :(
 
D

Deleted member 3014

Guest
#2
First and full most flagging for what you think is going to be an offside in the heat of the moment can happen especially if your not an experienced compitent Lino, it’s a head in hands moment but it happens, ball gets played through you anticipate the first player getting to it or touching it & bang your human instinct kicks in & the flag goes up unfortunately the player in question hasn’t actually touched the ball yet & now you have a ref blowing his whistle & a team / player feeling aggrieved.

It’s a very brave & hard thing to do overruling your Lino, not so bad if it’s a club assistant but a neutral it’s even harder for a whole number of reasons, your situation does sound rather baffling to have the exact same scenario & outcome happen twice I must admit, not sure you could have won either way with the second one, the wrong call was made but the only positive is it saved you backlash from the opposition.

It’s a catch 22 when you as a referee clearly think the Lino has got something wrong inplay it puts you in a right awkward situation trying to balance out undermining them but also to leave them with some credibility for the rest of the game.

Live and learn me old china, it’s only a negative tonight if you don’t learn from it, I’m sure many on here will help you pick the bones out of it.
 
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one

RefChat Addict
#3
Both assistants replaced late before today's game. AR1 just not up to it. Behind the play. Dithering with subs. Not inspiring confidence. AR2 young trained and sharp... but... Not the most technical game on a hard uneven grass pitch. Not so much happened until...

End of first half, whites are the better team but are 2 down, white through ball into the box, left by the first player, AR2 offside flag up, I whistle, 2nd player slots home. Of course, he wasn't offside. Terrible flag. No wait and see. I made it worse by quickly whistling even though I could see the player leave the ball and I knew there should not have been a whistle. There was a surreal moment where AR2 had his flag up and then he made the "put your flag down" gesture with the other hand as I whistled. Bizarre! Basically my biggest disaster of the season and my first wrongly disallowed goal in 5 years of serious reffing. I've allowed a few wrongly but not disallowed AFAIK!

Start of second half, carbon copy. Same ball in the channel into the box, first player leaves it, AR2 flag up, I whistle, again fully conscious, second player slots home, for the blues! The second worst moment of my time as a ref and another wrongly disallowed goal. Again, terrible flag, and again, I saw the action, and whistled. Terrible, terrible.

It stayed 2-0. I'm gutted. We discussed it. AR2 gutted too. Yes, bad flags. But my fault for blowing. :(
I have this many times (possibly two or there times a season). Its mostly because we get a lot of young and inexperienced NARs who despite the instructions, their instincts gets the better of them.

Worse case scenario is at grassroots when the AR puts the flag up, defenders stop and you know another attacker from onside is running for it. Even worse when the PIOP was going to run for it but stops at the same time as the defenders before any interference/impact . No win situation really. The technically correct thing to do is to wait before blowing the whistle and wave the flag down accordingly. But what is the fair thing to do? Your AR in effect has helped one team to score a goal by not only alerting the PIOP and stopping him from committing offside, but also helping the player who scored the goal by clearing his path. On the other hand, even without the AR intervention, there is still a small chance it would have been a goal (second player get to the ball first and beat the defenders).

I'd like to say i'd do the technically correct thing all the time but that's not the case. Sometimes I instinctively blow the whistle as you did. But most times I have more awareness and assess the situation, depending on the impact of the wrong flag I either wave it down or blow. No matter what the decision, it takes some player management once play stops.
 
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Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#4
Its a toughie

Can I throw in though, the long standing topic of NAR v CAR
Am not for one moment saying someone will call everything right but, I might have mentioned before that I dont use CAR. This means its me calling offsides and have done since birth when officiating in a game of said standard
I would suggest after x years practise, experience, law of averages says I might just be more versed in calling offsides whilst referreeing, than someone who naturally looks for CAR flag or otherwise.
It means ulitmatley that am pre programmed even with NAR to judge offsides myself. I would like to think on the examples you use that I would be able to make the correct call, justify it, and be in a credible position to sell it.


I think though given the example posted, I would be holding hands up to any protests, I would be saying something like
"Guys, flag went up, am in no position to make a call on it so rightly or wrongly am going with the flag"
For me, that way you are being humble and showing empathy to the players, and also justifying the AR involvment without obviously ridiculing it

I would also of course be saying to AR at end something like, you did ok out there today, its not an easy role, maybe a bit quick with a few flags though, try just practise the wait and see more next time.
If said AR was appointed to my game in future I would certainly make initital light hearted mention of wait and see in my prematch, this of course gives you instant justification to over rule any quick flag this time out without fear of upsetting your AR, afterall, you have reminded him nicely...
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
#5
We had a heart-to-heart with the AR after. He was gutted. A really nice young guy in his second academy year - so he is a trained NAR. It was our first time together. He obviously had a pair of brain-f***s. I apologised to a few players, and nearly went to the dressing rooms after but thought better of it.

I think I just was not expecting a busted flag here. One or two levels down from this with inexperienced ARs, yes, I am ready and have had to wave a lot of flags down. But I was not expecting it. Still, I knew what was happening - still I b***sed it up.

Both times were in essentially identical positions. Ball across, fist attacker left of the pen spot, second coming in from wider, getting to the ball and taking the shot from 2-3 m away from the corner of the goal area. Unreal stereo.

I think I was conscious of the players-are-stopping-with-the-flag effect because the play was in the box so close to goal. But it was still bad to blow. I kinda disagree with the Milage on this - we are forever educating the players to play to the whistle - and I should have waited for the ball to be in the net before consulting with the AR. In this case there was an obvious correct course both times!

Overall big learning is: blowing early for offside is only vital when player safety is an issue. Proximity to goal, players stopping etc. should not be a factor.
 
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