A&H

the changing of power at local level

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
Something written on here recently really chimed with me.

When i first started reffing many, many years ago referees were very well respected and were treated like god by the CFAs and the clubs just did what they were told. This was wrong in my opinion on both counts.

Over the years the people that ran their leagues had the power to fine, ban and suspend as they saw fit. Now the leagues have no powers at all. This is wrong.

Now instead of shifting the power to a more central point the balance has tipped massively in favour of the clubs. I see this as the leniency in which clubs are sometimes treated. For example a player who gets sent off but commits further offences still getting the same ban and/or fine for the first offence and the second offence is left untouched.

I think the local game is in trouble but no sure if the problems can be righted.

As an older ref my time is nearly over but i'm genuinely worried about the direction of travel. It appears that CFAs are being given less money by the FA and the PL tell the FA what to do.

This is genuinely how i feel and I wanted others to comment on how they feel.

I love football but am worried about the local game.
 
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If I were cynical I would suggest that any perceived leniency towards club's is due to the much vaunted "participation".

I.e it is more important to keep people playing football than to ensure that sanction are sufficient to deter people from breaking the laws of the game.

This is also the reason some weak people will use to try and justify not applying the laws of the game, i.e. it is more important to let someone play wearing earrings, than to ensure that players adhere to the laws of the game etc.
 
zarathustra said:
it is more important to let someone play wearing earrings, than to ensure that players adhere to the laws of the game
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I don't know of anyone on the forum who would allow earrings and I'm yet to encounter a referee who would be so negligent

I share @Kent Ref 's concerns about grass roots football. I think the problem rests with families' reluctance to allow a member to commit significant time to a sport. I don't think AOL is relevant
 
I share these sentiments.

From my various perspectives (League Secretary, referee and player) everything that the FA do is geared towards getting as many people involved in football as possible. They have the clear aim of being the nation's number one sport. End of.

I would like to see far greater cooperation between Clubs, County and Leagues. If there are issues then they need to be addressed with a certain standard - Eg if a player does x in Torquay he'll have the same punishment as a player in Carlisle - but local Leagues have a role to play in promoting that x doesn't happen in the first place. CFA should be allowed to work with League's closer and seek their help and input.

The Charter Standard is in a bit of a half way house at the moment. I'd like the strategy to be: all clubs and players need to adhere to a certain code of conduct. If a club or player goes beyond that code then they get sanctioned with and perhaps it's 3 strikes and you're out of football forever. (Some sanctions can be an immediate ban). Entrants to the sport are told in a crystal clear fashion what the consequences will be.

The one thing that I'll add is this simple advice - we are all agents of the FA and should be using our yellow and red cards readily ans consistently to drive out dissent and abuse.
 
Big Cat said:
I don't know of anyone on the forum who would allow earrings and I'm yet to encounter a referee who would be so negligent

I share @Kent Ref 's concerns about grass roots football. I think the problem rests with families' reluctance to allow a member to commit significant time to a sport. I don't think AOL is relevant
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I didn't say people on this forum, although there are those on here who happily pick and choose what laws to apply.

AOL is absolutely part of the struggle with keeping grassroots teams going, although it is by no means the biggest problem.

Players don't like getting suspended or fined, therefore, any punishments which could be truly seen to be deterrents are going to have the potential to negatively impact participation.

One example that springs to mind is a club I know well, who had a player that was constantly getting done for OFFINABUS and dissent etc, he got bored of being fined and suspended, instead of changing his behaviour, he just quit playing instead.

Of course, grassroots club's are hit from all sides, fines for various transgressions, fees for pitch hire, match fees, potentially mileage on top. As well as what appears to be a generation who would rather watch football instead of playing it.

However, I did say perceived leniency, I think that current punishments are, by and large, suitable. Indeed most of the complaints I've heard usually relate to things which would be submitted as a written report, which then went to personal hearings etc.
 
After 3 months still waiting for Manchester FA to take any action on a player who subjected one of our players to homophobic abuse as well as threatening several players with violence whilst the spineless ref did nothing.
League Sec is desp to kick the idiots out of the league!
3 months is a disgrace. That's p***k has been free to play all this time
 
deusex said:
After 3 months still waiting for Manchester FA to take any action on a player who subjected one of our players to homophobic abuse as well as threatening several players with violence whilst the spineless ref did nothing.
League Sec is desp to kick the idiots out of the league!
3 months is a disgrace. That's p***k has been free to play all this time
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Is it also being investigated by the Police?

My understanding is that the CFA will wait until any legal proceedings have completed before they can start their stuff.
 
Thank you to all those that have replied. It's a shame that as a collective we have no power to influence or change things.

Can i take it that as many regulars on the board have not commented they have no view on these matters or are you happy with the current situation?
 
The problem was that some leagues took draconian sanctions, others let players get away with murder, some were in between that, and that was a major issue. All that then happened is clubs or players appealed to Wembley, or probably Soho Square at the time, and the sanctions were overruled as being excessive.

These days anyone chairing a CFA or FA hearing has to have regular training and certification, and soon all commission members will have to go through the same. That means that sanctions handed out should be consistent regardless of player, club, county or general location.

Of course there is a big problem with participation at grass roots level, but I don't at all think that is down to the switch of discipline from leagues to the CFAs, and rather it is financial related.
 
RustyRef said:
The problem was that some leagues took draconian sanctions, others let players get away with murder, some were in between that, and that was a major issue. All that then happened is clubs or players appealed to Wembley, or probably Soho Square at the time, and the sanctions were overruled as being excessive.

These days anyone chairing a CFA or FA hearing has to have regular training and certification, and soon all commission members will have to go through the same. That means that sanctions handed out should be consistent regardless of player, club, county or general location.

Of course there is a big problem with participation at grass roots level, but I don't at all think that is down to the switch of discipline from leagues to the CFAs, and rather it is financial related.
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Any idea why the FA, which i think is doing ok for money (am i wrong?), is giving less to the counties?

Does the FA really care about the grassroots game?
 
Kent Ref said:
Any idea why the FA, which i think is doing ok for money (am i wrong?), is giving less to the counties?

Does the FA really care about the grassroots game?
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As an example The FA is funding the gap in income for dissent cautions to every County FA for at least the next 2 years due to the introduction of sin bins, as obviously there are no player fines for getting sin binned, just the time sat out the game.

The real money at the top level of the game that could make a material difference to grassroots comes from the Premier League, which is a completely different entity and doesn't give a damn about anything that is below them in the pyramid
 
Kent Ref said:
Thank you to all those that have replied. It's a shame that as a collective we have no power to influence or change things.

Can i take it that as many regulars on the board have not commented they have no view on these matters or are you happy with the current situation?
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I haven't commented, not because I'm either happy or unhappy.

However, my view is simple. I will " Control the Controllables" as it comes to refereeing and for so long as I enjoy refereeing I'll continue to do so.

Is the game perfect? NO

Could CFA's benefit from more money from further up? YES

Would young referees be better served with a wider and deeper mentoring program when they first qualify? YES

Would the game be better at all levels if every game could have 3 qualified officials on it? YES

But my ability as a referee to affect these changes is non existent, so i'm focused on what I can do myself within the construct that I'm working in.
 
Kes said:
Therein lies the problem for me.

The only people that really care about grassroots football are those actually involved in it.
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I see both sides of the coin here. The FA have definitely done more in recent years than before. The Stay in the Game grant is £750 and that's a huge amount for some clubs. However it's for clubs which run 2 or more teams. This immediately cuts off 1/3rd of the Club's I know. The reason given is that the FA have greater surety that those larger clubs will be still going in 3-4 years as there are inherently more volunteers (so there's a return on investment). This is strage logic as a grant called Stay in the Game should be going to the smaller clubs with few volunteers to ensure they are still around in a few years time.

Equally the Clubs I'm involved in are still only charging players £5 for a 90 minute game of football. Most only break even and if they want any investment they have to get sponsorship or fundraise.

I don't know what the answer is but it seems a combination approach is best suited. The FA should fund long term investments in pitch improvements and facilities (which admittedly it does but probably not on the scale many would like to see). The Clubs should focus on their running costs.
This broadly takes place but I think the tactics and strategies are not 100% coordinated.
 
Justylove said:
I haven't commented, not because I'm either happy or unhappy.

However, my view is simple. I will " Control the Controllables" as it comes to refereeing and for so long as I enjoy refereeing I'll continue to do so.

Is the game perfect? NO

Could CFA's benefit from more money from further up? YES

Would young referees be better served with a wider and deeper mentoring program when they first qualify? YES

Would the game be better at all levels if every game could have 3 qualified officials on it? YES

But my ability as a referee to affect these changes is non existent, so i'm focused on what I can do myself within the construct that I'm working in.
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Yep we don't have much scope outside the 90 minites. Since becoming a ref I've tried to get anyone who'll listen to become a Ref, steered new refs towards the local RA and asked the referee appointments Secretary to introduce new refs to the League with 'easy' games or in a Team of three if possible.
 
zarathustra said:
Is it also being investigated by the Police?

My understanding is that the CFA will wait until any legal proceedings have completed before they can start their stuff.
Click to expand...
It is likely that is has passed from Manchester CFA to the National FA to deal with - and that is where the problem is......
 
Kent Ref said:
Any idea why the FA, which i think is doing ok for money (am i wrong?), is giving less to the counties?

Does the FA really care about the grassroots game?
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One of the problems the FA have is that there are less volunteers getting involved either with clubs, league or the FA.

The FA is having to pay more to its volunteer staff for what they do - either coaching, referee support or fixtures. The CFA are also having to pay more for the volunteers time for various tasks including the disclipinary meeting expenses, etc.

While more is coming and going out, the numbers playing continue to drop. Which is one of the FA major stats.

Also the FA is funding more diversity in football, which is not self financing (women's, disabled) to support that strategic goal.

The FA have never worried about grassroots football facilities, thinking local council or clubs would cover the costs. This isn't happening anymore as councils cut budgets and clubs go bust.

If everybody on the forum looked at their league officials - how many are over 65?
In a few years, there will be more league having to be run out of CFA offices as no volunteers will run them.

Whatever we think now, it is going to be a tough 5 years for the local football.
 
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