A&H

Technology

The Referee Store
Or even better, the opposition go up the other end and score....only to have it disallowed and things brought back for the penalty after video review!

Utterly unworkable and totally unnecessary.

Players, clubs and fans just need to grow up and accept that officials sometimes make mistakes as well.
 
Players, clubs and fans just need to grow up and accept that officials sometimes make mistakes as well.
Especially managers. If Moriniho had spent more time looking at himself rather than blaming referees for Chelsea's demise, he would still have a job.
 
Or even better, the opposition go up the other end and score....only to have it disallowed and things brought back for the penalty after video review!

Utterly unworkable and totally unnecessary.

Players, clubs and fans just need to grow up and accept that officials sometimes make mistakes as well.

Totally agree but you just know that the majority of the "stakeholders" are going to "vote" for as much technology as possible.

As we know most don't even know how the laws work now, so to expect them to realise the difficulties of incorporating "technology" into them is probably a tad optimistic on my part!

A quick look at the "comments" posted on this story is depressing!

Most are along the lines of "Good, now we can get rid of all the rubbish referees"!:rolleyes:
 
these ideas should be in the fifa bin of stupid ideas, along with silver goal golden goal and rolling subs
 
I don't mind the introduction of technology but think it should be limited to yes/no, black/white incidents only. That includes, in my idea, goal-line technology (even though that is debatable; see this opinion), balls crossing other lines, and offside calls. Apart from these two, I see no need or reason to introduce across-the-board video technology. In fact, in my opinion this solution will have consequences that may be graver than the problem it seeks to resolve.
 
I don't mind the introduction of technology but think it should be limited to yes/no, black/white incidents only. That includes, in my idea, goal-line technology (even though that is debatable; see this opinion), balls crossing other lines, and offside calls. Apart from these two, I see no need or reason to introduce across-the-board video technology. In fact, in my opinion this solution will have consequences that may be graver than the problem it seeks to resolve.

But how would offside review work in practice? You can only correct NON calls by AR, not incorrect ones, unless a goal is scored immediately afterwards. Then if you are reviewing offside before a goal and see something else and how far do you go back?
 
I was at a development evening with Anthony Taylor the other week and someone asked him whether he thought we'd see the introduction of video referees in the Premier League. He was against it and to prove a point he got the person who asked the question to come up to the front, sit down and watch a clip, he then asked him whether the Red and yellow that were issued were correct.

He timed the guy and it took him about 2-3 minutes to reach the decision that it should have been two yellows (one for each team).

It's an extreme example, and obviously a premier league ref would likely come to a decision quicker, however it made his point that video technology would only serve to slow down the game.
 
But how would offside review work in practice? You can only correct NON calls by AR, not incorrect ones, unless a goal is scored immediately afterwards. Then if you are reviewing offside before a goal and see something else and how far do you go back?
Agreed. Video review of offside calls should not be included. I was not clear there. Rather, I was thinking along the lines of developing technology to aid ARs in calling offside correctly. Don't ask me how ;)
 
Technology is a good thing, but the problem is implementation. If you review a decision, what about non-decisions? You have to include both, otherwise it's a biased implementation (ie review a penalty decision, but not a non-penalty decision, means the only outcome would be to cancel a penalty, thus biased for the defence). The only plausible implementation, IMO, would be a coach's call. Allow them 1-2 appeals a game.
Offside is problematic - you'd need specialised equipment to be able to tell the close ones (the digital line that the TV stations like to draw is insufficient as it's inaccurate, doesn't show up the close decisions and only really shows feet), though it would still work on major decisions.

Who reviews? The ref? The 4th official? Too many top tier referees are too arrogant to admit they're wrong on the field.

Problem with all this is culture. Amongst referees, there's a massive culture that appearing right is far more important than being right. Amongst the rest, they have absolutely no idea what they want from referees. None.

But the problem is the culture of abuse. Have a decision overturned? The ref/AR will hear about it for the rest of the match, and possibly a few matches after. The abuse culture is not conducive to a process potentially overturning referee decisions on the park. In fact, the culture is completely hostile to it. Now, the problem with this is that this sort of response is likely to encourage further abuse during the game, or further decreased respect during the game. This leads to more scenes of players mobbing the referee, or whinging and crying every time a decision is made, or just hacking the other players and not listening to the referee. I'm not saying that those things are reasons for not getting the decision correct in the end - I'm simply saying that the culture of abuse, and the culture where players and team officials are not held accountable for their actions, is too abusive, too hostile to encourage a fair system.

And that takes me to a unique problem with video refereeing in this game. In rugby league, rugby union, and cricket, video referees come in when the official hasn't made a decision - in fact, when the official is actually asking for help (not sure about other sports). That's different to video refereeing here, where its entire purpose is to second guess a decision (including one that no offence has been committed) that has been made.

Personally, I don't think as many decisions will be overturned as a lot of people expect. Any doubt whatsoever, and it will just go back to the referee's decision. And if I think back to all of the big decisions that have caused uproar this season, virtually all of them have had some debate about them. Which suggests to me that in the video box, there's going to at least be some doubt for many of them - and from experience, it's a lot harder to be 'certain' when your decision carries weight than it is screaming at a television. It's simply impossible to put yourself in the same decision-making mindset when your 'decision', as a spectator, doesn't matter. So, it's probably going to be harder to overturn a decision than expected. This is also a hardware limitation - will they implement high-speed cameras? Where and how many? Will the referee have access to footage from every camera on the ground in checking the decision (presumably so)?

The final problem is that sometimes the referee simply had a better view than every camera at the ground. It may not happen often, but it does happen. If so, video refereeing WILL lead to some correct decisions being overturned. There's been plenty of incorrect video decisions in other games.

Overall though, I don't think refereeing has kept up with the game, but I think there are much bigger problems in the culture and philosophy of refereeing that contribute to that which I won't get into here (as well as the prima donna culture of the game, the culture of abuse, and the lack of personal responsibility of players and team officials for their conduct). So, i think the implementation of videos is a good thing and on balance it will benefit the game - as long as it's done in a manner which isn't overly disruptive to the game, and gives just as much opportunity for changing a decision one way into a decision another way as it does for changing a decision not to stop play into a decision to stop play. and I think the only way to do that is a limited number of 'coaches calls'. As to who does the reviewing? Ref? 4th official? Problem is, how are they going to review a decision without everybody being in their ear? Again, the culture of abuse wouldn't allow an on-field review. Would probably have to be somebody in a box in the stadium, like in the other sports. Pitch-side monitors will not work at all.

these ideas should be in the fifa bin of stupid ideas, along with silver goal golden goal and rolling subs
Nothing wrong with rolling subs - this is a game for everybody, after all.
 
Technology is a good thing, but the problem is implementation. If you review a decision, what about non-decisions? You have to include both, otherwise it's a biased implementation (ie review a penalty decision, but not a non-penalty decision, means the only outcome would be to cancel a penalty, thus biased for the defence). The only plausible implementation, IMO, would be a coach's call. Allow them 1-2 appeals a game.
Offside is problematic - you'd need specialised equipment to be able to tell the close ones (the digital line that the TV stations like to draw is insufficient as it's inaccurate, doesn't show up the close decisions and only really shows feet), though it would still work on major decisions.

Who reviews? The ref? The 4th official? Too many top tier referees are too arrogant to admit they're wrong on the field.

Problem with all this is culture. Amongst referees, there's a massive culture that appearing right is far more important than being right. Amongst the rest, they have absolutely no idea what they want from referees. None.

But the problem is the culture of abuse. Have a decision overturned? The ref/AR will hear about it for the rest of the match, and possibly a few matches after. The abuse culture is not conducive to a process potentially overturning referee decisions on the park. In fact, the culture is completely hostile to it. Now, the problem with this is that this sort of response is likely to encourage further abuse during the game, or further decreased respect during the game. This leads to more scenes of players mobbing the referee, or whinging and crying every time a decision is made, or just hacking the other players and not listening to the referee. I'm not saying that those things are reasons for not getting the decision correct in the end - I'm simply saying that the culture of abuse, and the culture where players and team officials are not held accountable for their actions, is too abusive, too hostile to encourage a fair system.

And that takes me to a unique problem with video refereeing in this game. In rugby league, rugby union, and cricket, video referees come in when the official hasn't made a decision - in fact, when the official is actually asking for help (not sure about other sports). That's different to video refereeing here, where its entire purpose is to second guess a decision (including one that no offence has been committed) that has been made.

Personally, I don't think as many decisions will be overturned as a lot of people expect. Any doubt whatsoever, and it will just go back to the referee's decision. And if I think back to all of the big decisions that have caused uproar this season, virtually all of them have had some debate about them. Which suggests to me that in the video box, there's going to at least be some doubt for many of them - and from experience, it's a lot harder to be 'certain' when your decision carries weight than it is screaming at a television. It's simply impossible to put yourself in the same decision-making mindset when your 'decision', as a spectator, doesn't matter. So, it's probably going to be harder to overturn a decision than expected. This is also a hardware limitation - will they implement high-speed cameras? Where and how many? Will the referee have access to footage from every camera on the ground in checking the decision (presumably so)?

The final problem is that sometimes the referee simply had a better view than every camera at the ground. It may not happen often, but it does happen. If so, video refereeing WILL lead to some correct decisions being overturned. There's been plenty of incorrect video decisions in other games.

Overall though, I don't think refereeing has kept up with the game, but I think there are much bigger problems in the culture and philosophy of refereeing that contribute to that which I won't get into here (as well as the prima donna culture of the game, the culture of abuse, and the lack of personal responsibility of players and team officials for their conduct). So, i think the implementation of videos is a good thing and on balance it will benefit the game - as long as it's done in a manner which isn't overly disruptive to the game, and gives just as much opportunity for changing a decision one way into a decision another way as it does for changing a decision not to stop play into a decision to stop play. and I think the only way to do that is a limited number of 'coaches calls'. As to who does the reviewing? Ref? 4th official? Problem is, how are they going to review a decision without everybody being in their ear? Again, the culture of abuse wouldn't allow an on-field review. Would probably have to be somebody in a box in the stadium, like in the other sports. Pitch-side monitors will not work at all.


Nothing wrong with rolling subs - this is a game for everybody, after all.
thats the beauty of opinions some referees like some things some dont. if you are doing the substitute procedure properly 19 subs in a game are a proper pain
 
Only if you're unlucky enough to be in an area where they tell you to go to halfway for each one. If you're not made to do that then it's nothing other than a very minor annoyance that can be fairly easily managed.
 
Been through this before. LOTG don't require that at all, only that the referee check the player is abiding by Law 4. Taking that to mean an official needs to be at the substitution location is merely an interpretation, not black-and-white law.
Proper substitution procedure? No, not necessarily.
 
Update on the 'rolling subs' question. There was a piece in the latest London FA newsletter asking this specific question. The 'official' response (from that FA at least) was that you're expected to check the name / kit of any new player coming onto the FOP but not ones that have been on previously .. which makes total sense to me :)
 
Back
Top