Ref4Me

Team GB v Chile - Olympics Womens Group Game

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
anyone else watching?

ref getting incredibly close to play in and around the box, she pretty much tackled a Team GB player which led to her losing the ball on one ocxaision and just now shes stopped play after an coming together with Team GB in possession and restarted with a drop ball to Chile. not great

and now here's a VAR check...can someone more learned than me confirm if this is right?!

corner given...VAR checks for a potential foul/pen. during the check it's revealed that the attacker is offside, play restarted with IDFK for the offside. is that correct with the protocol?! also bear in mind corner was totally incorrect as it also came off the attacker last.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
another random VAR check for a clearly fair tackle in the box that took them a minute to sort out...very poor communication from the tv comapnies to let the viewers know what's happening!
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
anyone else watching?

ref getting incredibly close to play in and around the box, she pretty much tackled a Team GB player which led to her losing the ball on one ocxaision and just now shes stopped play after an coming together with Team GB in possession and restarted with a drop ball to Chile. not great

and now here's a VAR check...can someone more learned than me confirm if this is right?!

corner given...VAR checks for a potential foul/pen. during the check it's revealed that the attacker is offside, play restarted with IDFK for the offside. is that correct with the protocol?! also bear in mind corner was totally incorrect as it also came off the attacker last.
I think if any other offences are identified as part of one of the 4 reviewable scenarios it can be penalised.
In this case, check for pen, would it have been a pen? if an offside offence is detected before the penalty offence the restart should be from offside.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I think if any other offences are identified as part of one of the 4 reviewable scenarios it can be penalised.
In this case, check for pen, would it have been a pen? if an offside offence is detected before the penalty offence the restart should be from offside.

i agree it should, but wasn't sure if that was correct in law. if the ref had decided it wasnt actually a foul (it was) would she have been correct to award the goal kick?

oh lovely 2nd goal for team GB
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
i agree it should, but wasn't sure if that was correct in law. if the ref had decided it wasnt actually a foul (it was) would she have been correct to award the goal kick?

oh lovely 2nd goal for team GB
Yes. I think so.
I think it's worked through in order.
Is it a penalty?
Yes = is there a reason not to award a penalty, check offside.
No= Continue with play.

I think that is right. This is what is checked for penalty/no penalty:

Penalty kick/no penalty kick
• attacking team offence in the build-up to the penalty incident
(handball, foul, offside etc.)
• ball out of play prior to the incident
• location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
• penalty kick incorrectly awarded
• penalty kick offence not penalised
 
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one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
You check for a penalty. If it's not a penalty then you don't intervene at all even if you identify an offside in build up.

If the check for penalty identifies it is a penalty, then you check for attacking offences which may have occurred in build up. If there was one you give that.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
You check for a penalty. If it's not a penalty then you don't intervene at all even if you identify an offside in build up.

If the check for penalty identifies it is a penalty, then you check for attacking offences which may have occurred in build up. If there was one you give that.

good explaination, thanks

think the first sentence is where i got confused. i recalled a situation where there was a VAR check for a pen in the prem last year but didnt get to an onfield reivew. a corner was awarded when it was clearly offside in the build up but play was restarted with the corner. as you explain, this is correct
 
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APurpleChair

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Yes. I think so.
I think it's worked through in order.
Is it a penalty?
Yes = is there a reason not to award a penalty, check offside.
No= Continue with play.

I think that is right. This is what is checked for penalty/no penalty:

Penalty kick/no penalty kick
• attacking team offence in the build-up to the penalty incident
(handball, foul, offside etc.)
• ball out of play prior to the incident
• location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
• penalty kick incorrectly awarded
• penalty kick offence not penalised
Something is not right here. I don’t think you can go back and give offside if the original decision was a corner?

We would have the following scenario:

a) Attacker was fouled but was offside = defensive free kick
b) Attacker was NOT fouled but was offside = corner (VAR protocol does not allow the review of a corner)

How can you have a worse outcome for the attacking team if they have been offended against?

On a further note, I only saw about 15 minutes of this game and saw

a) the incident above
b) referee allowing restart of play whilst physios were about 15m onto the pitch removing injured player
c) referee stopping play for a potential head injury while ball was in GB possession about 25m away. Restart was a drop ball to Chile from the position of the injury, which she then suggested was played back to GB to continue.
d) referee virtually tackling a GB player and then happily allowing play to continue

We are going to have fun with this tournament if this is the standard of refereeing to expect!
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Something is not right here. I don’t think you can go back and give offside if the original decision was a corner?

We would have the following scenario:

a) Attacker was fouled but was offside = defensive free kick
b) Attacker was NOT fouled but was offside = corner (VAR protocol does not allow the review of a corner)

How can you have a worse outcome for the attacking team if they have been offended against?

On a further note, I only saw about 15 minutes of this game and saw

a) the incident above
b) referee allowing restart of play whilst physios were about 15m onto the pitch removing injured player
c) referee stopping play for a potential head injury while ball was in GB possession about 25m away. Restart was a drop ball to Chile from the position of the injury, which she then suggested was played back to GB to continue.
d) referee virtually tackling a GB player and then happily allowing play to continue

We are going to have fun with this tournament if this is the standard of refereeing to expect!
Dont think you have understood my post.

If a foul has occurred then its either a penalty or not.

If a foul has occurred but the attacking team has committed an offence in the build up, in this case offside, and the offside is committed before the foul, as per law 11 you Penalise offside offence.

You can't ignore the foul, because it was offside, you have to Penalise the offside.

If VAR deem not offside and a foul you award a penalty.

If VAR deem no foul, then you carry on as if the check never took place so in this case a corner.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
You check for a penalty. If it's not a penalty then you don't intervene at all even if you identify an offside in build up.

If the check for penalty identifies it is a penalty, then you check for attacking offences which may have occurred in build up. If there was one you give that.

With a caveat--if the VAR sends down for a PK and the R disagrees, another offense seen in the OFR can be sanctioned.
 
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socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Dont think you have understood my post.

If a foul has occurred then its either a penalty or not.

If a foul has occurred but the attacking team has committed an offence in the build up, in this case offside, and the offside is committed before the foul, as per law 11 you Penalise offside offence.

You can't ignore the foul, because it was offside, you have to Penalise the offside.

If VAR deem not offside and a foul you award a penalty.

If VAR deem no foul, then you carry on as if the check never took place so in this case a corner.
I *think* this is correct and what is done in practice--though I think it is also not as crisp in the guidelines as would be ideal, as some details have evolved with use. (But I didn't go back to look at them to sort it out, either.)
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I _do_ understand your point.

I was making the point that it is actually benefitting the defensive team to commit a penalty foul in this situation. Which is a bit weird?
You'd be mad to try it though. 1) to be 100% sure they are offside and 2) they have committed an offside offence. 3) having thought about all that make the decision to commit a foul..

I do see the point you are making though.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
With a caveat--if the VAR sends down for a PK and the R disagrees, another offense seen in the OFR can be sanctioned.
There are a lot of combinations. I wanted to limit to OP and simplify it as much as possible.

Your quote applies to all 4 types of reviews.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
T
I _do_ understand your point.

I was making the point that it is actually benefitting the defensive team to commit a penalty foul in this situation. Which is a bit weird?
There are a number of potential quirks that result in odd results from VAR. Consider the scenario where white defender (already on a caution) commits a reckless tackle just outside the PA to win possession that the R doesn't call, and white team takes the ball down and scores. That reckless tackle suddenly becomes reviewable, not only wiping the goal, but causing the R to give the second caution and send off as well as the attacking FK just outside the PA. Had white missed the shot, there would have been no review, so in essence they suffer for having scored.

Absent reviewing everything or going to a coach's challenge model, I don't think there is any way to rid the system of those kinds of quirks.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Absent reviewing everything or going to a coach's challenge model, I don't think there is any way to rid the system of those kinds of quirks.
Not sure if team challenge removes quirks either. If Team A challenges a decision but unsuccessful, in the same review a sanctionable offence against team A is found, the protocol can allow that sanction to be penalised.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Not sure if team challenge removes quirks either. If Team A challenges a decision but unsuccessful, in the same review a sanctionable offence against team A is found, the protocol can allow that sanction to be penalised.

That would depend on the protocols adopted. Some challenge based models permit solely review of the particular issue challenged. (Mind you, I'm not arguing for a challenge system, as those have their own issues, too.)
 
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