RefSix

Suarez vs Lyon

Penalty or dive?

  • Penalty

  • Simulation

  • Neither - play on


Results are only viewable after voting.

JH

RefChat Addict
#6
If you don't think there is an element of simulation, note the fact that Suarez stands on the defender, then jumps in the air and grabs his ankle:wall:
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#8
Not sure why VAR couldn't make and intervention because of a clear and obvious error, because that penalty is just that
Based on previous observations, I'd fully expect VAR to support this penalty (which they did, by way of a check)
VAR would rule that the defender acted without precaution (by going to ground), despite the fact Suarez deliberately stretched out a boot to tread on the defender's ankle. Being an adept cheat is usually a prerequisite to be a top player (minority of exceptions such as Messi)
 
#9
Based on previous observations, I'd fully expect VAR to support this penalty (which they did, by way of a check)
VAR would rule that the defender acted without precaution (by going to ground), despite the fact Suarez deliberately stretched out a boot to tread on the defender's ankle. Being an adept cheat is usually a prerequisite to be a top player (minority of exceptions such as Messi)

While I appreciate your observations I don't quite agree with that protocol, and it's obvious thats the decision VAR made, but this is setting a very dangerous standard at the supposed peak competition in Europe, blatant cheating going unpunished and somewhat encouraged because I doubt retrospective action will be taken against him, and I think everyone in the modern game has at some point or another attempted to con the match officials Messi included
 
#10
Match referee is brilliantly positioned and it's an unnecessary / highly risky challenge from the defender. Whilst I certainly think Suarez both 'bought' the foul and then over egged the histrionics, I'm not calling this as simulation. Basically the defender has put this leg in the place where Suarez foot is (90%) naturally going to come down .. that's a foul for me
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#12
I'm not sure I'm looking at the same incident here.....a clear foul for me instigated by the defenders careless tackle. Ok there follows some play acting but that's pretty standard procedure these days.
If it weren't Suarez, would you still be calling this a dive?
 
#13
I'm not sure I'm looking at the same incident here.....a clear foul for me instigated by the defenders careless tackle. Ok there follows some play acting but that's pretty standard procedure these days.
If it weren't Suarez, would you still be calling this a dive?
I would, unless we give fouls all over the field when someone stands on someone's foot
 
#16
I think this is really tough.

I'll go with free kick to the defender.
Suarez treads on him. Yes, the defender slides, kinda pulls out... but there's no need for Suarez to tread on him. Suarez (I am a fan;)) leaves his natural path to tread on the defender. I don't think the defender's action is careless, I think Suarez is careless, borderline reckless.

I also understand pen, simulation, or defensive DFK. I don't think there are wrong answers here.

A question: if you think it's a pen, and the defender has pulled out of a tackle, and it's a foul, does that mean it can't be an attempt to play the ball and therefore the RC/YC should not be downgraded (was there a card here)?
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#17
I think this is really tough.

I'll go with free kick to the defender.
Suarez treads on him. Yes, the defender slides, kinda pulls out... but there's no need for Suarez to tread on him. Suarez (I am a fan;)) leaves his natural path to tread on the defender. I don't think the defender's action is careless, I think Suarez is careless, borderline reckless.

I also understand pen, simulation, or defensive DFK. I don't think there are wrong answers here.

A question: if you think it's a pen, and the defender has pulled out of a tackle, and it's a foul, does that mean it can't be an attempt to play the ball and therefore the RC/YC should not be downgraded (was there a card here)?
I didn't see a card. The position on the field is enough to rule out DOGSO for me, so the most you'd ever give is yellow here. It's certainly careless at most by the defender and I'm not totally sold on even SPA to be honest.

There are two issues with SPA - is Suarez going to reach the ball before it goes out, and would a cross into the box have the potential to be scored? ~I think both of those are pretty borderline, so I'm not sure I'd even go for SPA. I'm also not totally convinced by your premise to be honest! He made the slide in an attempt to play the ball - the fact he changed him mind and (arguably!) didn't quite manage to get out of the way enough doesn't invalidate that initial attempt IMO. Lots of reasons you can justify no card here.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#19
I reckon the variations how a tackle may be interpreted is more than the combination of chess pieces on a chess board :)

Every now and then a player puts themselves at the mercy of the generosity of an opponent. When the opponent is a thug, you are screwed. Take the Salah-Ramos incident from last year's UCL final. Salah put his arm in the grasp of Ramos as they were going down. Ramos could have allowed Salah to use his hand to break his fall but being the thug that he is he did not and Salah ended up injured. While you can blame Ramos for it, the main cause of it was Salah himself.

In the OP Denayer goes in with a careless slide tackle. He realises he can't get the ball and tries to pull out but by then its too late, he is on the ground and has forward momentum. Now he is at the mercy of Suarez to 'create a foul' or not. Suarez goes down at the best of times even when there is a fair challenge, he is certainly not going to pass up on this opportunity. In fact I think he was looking for it. But the fact still remains the slide tackle by Denayer was a careless one and Suarez is under no obligation to avoid it given that he has possession of the ball and entitled to protect it. Yes Swarez's foot ended up on top of Denayer's. But it was an illegal move by Denayer that caused it.
 
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