RefSix

Junior/Youth stupid assistant - his behaviour helps his son to be sent off

Kent Ref

Active Member
#1
I was reffing under 15's this morning.

Red player fouls orange player on the edge of the area.

Red keeper is talking to defenders about placings etc and orange player says "can i take it ref?". I say yes and blow whistle.

Orange player puts the ball in the top corner. Cue Red keeper giving me the benefit of his experience.

"He cant take it until i am ready". I walked to keeper and explained that if the attacking team wants to take it and i am ready they can. He then throws a paddy and the assistant ref (his dad) gets involved. I repeat what i sad to the son to the dad. The dad says"i played football for 20 years and the ref has to wait. Everybody knows that". I tell him he is wrong.

The red keeper then starts to shout "you don't know the rules ref" etc so i walk to him and show him a yellow one. I'm hearing the dad muttering away. As the sons walks away i get the sarcastic clapping etc from the red keeper so he gets a second yellow.

I then get attitude from the assistant and he throws the flag down. I then speak to the manager of the red team and he gets me a new assistant.

After the game the manager confirms that he knows that refs do not have to wait for keepers etc.

But i think the dad's attitude contributed to the son being sent off.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#2
This is very similar to the other post, about encrouchment, where, the laws say retake, but it risks massive fall out at grassroots
This is same, you are perfectly correct to allow the fk on the basis you are ready, ball right place etc,
However, managment wise, look what happened
Now, there is no blame on the ref here, and the behaviour/ignorance of the folk in question is unnacceptable, however, looking back now, are you satisfied the quick free kick was the sensible, if certainly correct and legal, thing to do....




Edit...I like to think had I allowed the quick one and its a goal, then am away from the scene quickly, (providing am sure there is no skullduggery getting the ball back), say, to half way, then, if goalie wants to come anywhere near me, he has to come find me, and it be the easiest (yellow?) card of the season......
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#3
Hmmmm......whilst I'm a firm supporter of allowing quick free kicks anywhere on the field of play and I have no issue with what you describe. Just a question.....was there anything in the lead up that led the defence to expect a ceremonial free kick? For example, were you standing over the ball?
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
#4
Um...you said you used your whistle after saying yes. So it wasn't quick free kick. The whistle makes it ceremonial. Once that happens, you should realistically be making sure the goal keeper is ready.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#5
No excuses for the red keeper and the dad. But I urge you on rethinking how you manage your free kicks. Its either quick or ceremonial when around the penalty area. Otherwise, fairness apart, you will be having frequent game management problems.

This doesn't sound like it was a quick free kick here. The defenders in the process of setting up wall, the attackers had time to ask you if they can take it and you had time to blow whistle for it (and likely time to walk over to it).

So if not quick, it has to be ceremonial. In ceremonial, attackers ready, you ready, defenders ready. That's how it works. Avoid any gotcha moments in the game.
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#6
No excuses for the red keeper and the dad. But I urge you on rethinking how you manage your free kicks. Its either quick or ceremonial when around the penalty area. Otherwise, fairness apart, you will be having frequent game management problems.

This doesn't sound like it was a quick free kick here. The defenders in the process of setting up wall, the attackers had time to ask you if they can take it and you had time to blow whistle for it (and likely time to walk over to it).

So if not quick, it has to be ceremonial. In ceremonial, attackers ready, you ready, defenders ready. That's how it works. Avoid any gotcha moments in the game.
Good point, missed the bit about the whistle, definitely should not blow for a quickie.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#7
Where you were correct in law (we are under no obligation to wait for the defending team to get ready) this doesn't sound like a quick free kick, and something must have given the defending team the impression this was going to be ceremonial.
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
#8
Um...you said you used your whistle after saying yes. So it wasn't quick free kick. The whistle makes it ceremonial. Once that happens, you should realistically be making sure the goal keeper is ready.
No reason why you have to though as per LOTG
 

socal lurker

Well-Known Member
#11
I’ve never been fond of the term quick kick, as I think it implies more than is in in the Laws or necessary to the spirit of the game.

There are many kicks that are neither ceremonial nor taken quickly—that would include almost all kicks from more than 40 yards out.

The best advice I ever got on how to think about this (and I don’t recall where I first heard it) is that the only right the defending team has on a free kick is the right not to be confused by the referee. To me, that means if I don’t need to be involved, I stay away from the ball (and the wall if there is one) and they can take the kick any time. Once I have to get involved, 8 make it very clear that it is ceremonial and the kick is on the whistle. I’m going to move the wall back and there is going to be no surprise when the whistle comes. (That does not entirely mean I’m waiting for the GK to be ready. There is a point at which the foolish GK huddling on the post after it’s clear we’re ready to go is just going to be out of luck, but that is extremely rare.)

IMHO, there should never be a whistle used in connection with a FK anywhere near the goal without a ceremonial restart.
 
#12
Thank you all for your comments.

The reason i blew the whistle is so that there was not the call of "we didn't know it was going to be taken".

The same thing happened to me two years ago and the same scenario happened and i just said "away you go" to the attacker and he scored.

On that game the manager kicked off blaming me for not blowing the whistle!

You can never win.
 

xPositor

RefChat Addict
#16
For me you either take it within a couple of seconds or you wait for the whistle, no in between.
This was on the whistle though...

@Kent Ref - this is a bit like at a substitution: the substitution is complete once the substitute has entered the FOP. In reality, you wait for that substitute to get to roughly where they need to be before you restart the game. For a FK on the whistle, make sure players are aware you are going to blow the whistle. The keeper may continue to faff about, but you will have at least warned them that the game is restarting.

This does come down to game management, which goes beyond the formal LotG. Technically you were 100% correct, but practically you want no surprises refereeing.

Live and learn - the joy of experience and asking the wider community for advice. You'll now know for next time!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#17
I say this so many times and it seems to ring true on the post in question

J K Rowling and Anne Hegerty could probably learn and digest and pass the LOTG test in 24 hours flat

However, the key to good refereeing is knowing what to do with this knowledge and how to apply it in the most sensible and suitable way for the situation at hand

Its great to be able to say, but the laws said..... its even better to be able to say, I handled that sensibly and in accordance with the laws.

Whats the actual satisfaction in being chased off the park but being able to inwardly smile that least you did what page 45 demands......
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#18
I was reffing under 15's this morning.

Red player fouls orange player on the edge of the area.

Red keeper is talking to defenders about placings etc and orange player says "can i take it ref?". I say yes and blow whistle.

Orange player puts the ball in the top corner. Cue Red keeper giving me the benefit of his experience.

"He cant take it until i am ready". I walked to keeper and explained that if the attacking team wants to take it and i am ready they can. He then throws a paddy and the assistant ref (his dad) gets involved. I repeat what i sad to the son to the dad. The dad says"i played football for 20 years and the ref has to wait. Everybody knows that". I tell him he is wrong.

The red keeper then starts to shout "you don't know the rules ref" etc so i walk to him and show him a yellow one. I'm hearing the dad muttering away. As the sons walks away i get the sarcastic clapping etc from the red keeper so he gets a second yellow.

I then get attitude from the assistant and he throws the flag down. I then speak to the manager of the red team and he gets me a new assistant.

After the game the manager confirms that he knows that refs do not have to wait for keepers etc.

But i think the dad's attitude contributed to the son being sent off.
As I have been told: Sensible refereeing is to never allow a quick free-kick unless it's going sideways or backwards. Especially not a shot on goal.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#19
As I have been told: Sensible refereeing is to never allow a quick free-kick unless it's going sideways or backwards. Especially not a shot on goal.
Don't agree. In a counter attack, for example, if the purpose of the foul is to delay the attack for more defenders to arrive, I am certainly going to allow a QFK if taken correctly no matter which direction it's taken. Otherwise I would be helping the offending team.

The question is if it is a cautionable offence and holding up play disadvantages the attacking team, will you be willing to sacrifice the caution?
 
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