Stockport Vs Wrexham
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santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Corner was the best result IMHO. I feel for the AR. But if he really wanted a penalty - and was going to force the ref into giving one WHATEVER - then we expect a foul flag.
Without that it presented horribly reactive, AR chose the wrong battle. Broke the team, didn’t sell the decision, dropped the R in it, and it might put him back in his career as just not smart IMHO - especially on replay.
What could he have done? Flagged it. Without flagging it he could have moved away from McLean either towards the box line or even up the touchline a bit and entered the field - anything to avoid looking so reactive. But really, no, just don’t do it!
Without that it presented horribly reactive, AR chose the wrong battle. Broke the team, didn’t sell the decision, dropped the R in it, and it might put him back in his career as just not smart IMHO - especially on replay.
What could he have done? Flagged it. Without flagging it he could have moved away from McLean either towards the box line or even up the touchline a bit and entered the field - anything to avoid looking so reactive. But really, no, just don’t do it!
Not the R or AR's fault
These are given the Champions League and they're the best Referees in the World
Notwithstanding, the AR should have a day off in our collective opinion, but we all screw up at all levels because the game (and officiating) is chaotic and none of us are much different from one another. We're all vulnerable in every game
These are given the Champions League and they're the best Referees in the World
Notwithstanding, the AR should have a day off in our collective opinion, but we all screw up at all levels because the game (and officiating) is chaotic and none of us are much different from one another. We're all vulnerable in every game
I get the vulnerable part, but not the chaotic bit - why do you consider the game & officiating is chaotic. In any event, sticking to basic principles should reduce both vulnerability as well as any potential chaos.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
Spent many an hour travelling up and down motorways with Si. Glad to see he’s getting some of the higher echelon games at that level. Although him and the AR have had a right stinker there.
Only thing I can think is that the comms went down. Happens more often at that level than you think.
Only thing I can think is that the comms went down. Happens more often at that level than you think.
PP62
Well-Known Member
I’m a county fan and have worked with this referee who I think is decent. Looked like a push in the back, sometimes it’s given sometimes it’s a penalty. When I saw the ref go over to the assistant I was expecting a yellow card for obvious dissent for the Wrexham captain. No further comment.
one
RefChat Addict
On the decision,
There was a slight push. But IMO it did not amount to careless. That type of push is rarely given when challenging for headers. It happens frequently at corners. The shape of the defender's body/hand is not natural for the push. It's the type of shape they deliberately get themselves into to protest/gesture they have been pushed. The ball connects with his elbow. Technically it is a correct decision but harsh at that.
On the process, if this penalty is called, it has to be called immediately by the referee. I just isn't a definitive case of handball. And a long delay (even if the attacker wasn't protesting) diminishes any credibility.
There was a slight push. But IMO it did not amount to careless. That type of push is rarely given when challenging for headers. It happens frequently at corners. The shape of the defender's body/hand is not natural for the push. It's the type of shape they deliberately get themselves into to protest/gesture they have been pushed. The ball connects with his elbow. Technically it is a correct decision but harsh at that.
On the process, if this penalty is called, it has to be called immediately by the referee. I just isn't a definitive case of handball. And a long delay (even if the attacker wasn't protesting) diminishes any credibility.
Increasingly so, based upon 8 years of refereeing and taking much more notice of refereeing performances at all levels, I'm very strongly inclined to think that the difference between elite referees and those who operate from Level 2 upwards, is so marginal as to be undetectable
Therefore, if these referees could get in this tangle, we all could
The confusion in this incident has come about from the different interpretation we see of handball in international football
Anyway, the AR shouldn't have gotten involved here because the HB call was controversial. The referee made the mistake of taking the advice when he should have declined the PK on the basis of the push. However, the dynamics of how the officiating team (referee, ARs and 4Os) work in football are extremely challenging, leaving us all vulnerable to this sort of calamity
I have a lot of sympathy for the officials involved in this incident. I can see why they messed up as I see my own fallibility mirrored by officials on TV all the time
Unlike with footballers, where the elite stand out clearly from other players, I do not see much evidence at all that elite referees are any different at all from their counterparts who don't quite make it
one
RefChat Addict
We need to eliminate hindsight here. Unfortunately, as a referee at the time, there is a flip side to this.
Had he seen it clearly then no matter what the AR says as a referee you make you own decision. But i am reasonably sure he didnt see it clearly. And once the AR gets involved, and at this level the ARs must be trusted, then there is also the thought of "I have got a penalty decision wrong, and there is video evidence of it, am I going to insist on my wrong decision even after everyone sees my AR is telling me its a pen?"
Agree. The biggest factor in my worst ever mistake on a step 2 game was genuinely the thought of 'this is gonna be reviewed on video either way so there is no 'safe decision'. That then meant I guessed. In reality, I should never have guessed, but in the moment and it being my first involvement at step 2 level, made me panic at the time. Something I've learned from hugely.
The problem here is, particularly if comms were down, the AR may correctly believe that the arm is making the body unnaturally bigger and that the ball hits the arm, but may not see the small push which (may or may not) cause it, or may wonder if the referee feels the push is significant enough. Then once they have that public conversation, about it, there's no option really to say it's not handball because the defender has been pushed, because then everyone would ask how we're giving a corner over a foul, so it becomes a case of simply, handball or not, and the push can't really be a mitigating factor.
It does look awful though, but feel sorry for the officials.
The problem here is, particularly if comms were down, the AR may correctly believe that the arm is making the body unnaturally bigger and that the ball hits the arm, but may not see the small push which (may or may not) cause it, or may wonder if the referee feels the push is significant enough. Then once they have that public conversation, about it, there's no option really to say it's not handball because the defender has been pushed, because then everyone would ask how we're giving a corner over a foul, so it becomes a case of simply, handball or not, and the push can't really be a mitigating factor.
It does look awful though, but feel sorry for the officials.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I hear you. But with hindsight they could have sold a YC to McLean easily after the conversation, restarted with a corner, and we wouldn’t be having this thread
one
RefChat Addict
Without hindsight, we could be having a 'worse' thread.I hear you. But with hindsight they could have sold a YC to McLean easily after the conversation, restarted with a corner, and we wouldn’t be having this thread
Watch the movie "the butterfly effect".
one
RefChat Addict
Why do you think this AR waited so long? I don't think it was doubt over if it was handball. It was doubt over if he should be calling the referee over. And I feel the attacker's protest had some influence over his decision to call the referee if intact this is what he did. Watching the video again, the AR initiating the discussion is not certain. It is also possible the referee initiated it.
Whether it was doubt over either it still sets alarm bells ringing. It looks like James McLean made the decision for them and that really isn't a good look. We obviously don't know what was being said over comms, but there is no way it can take that long from the offence happening to the decision being made.