Ref4Me

step 3-6 observations

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
To those active across L3 & L4 referees, the FA have just given update guidance regarding COVID.

The main point is that post-match debriefs will still be done remotely :(

So looks like I am going to be doing County level, unless the referee fancies 7.30 am call on Sunday morning.
 
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Justylove

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
To those active across L3 & L4 referees, the FA have just given update guidance regarding COVID.

The main point is that post-match debriefs will still be done remotely :(

So looks like I am going to be doing County level, unless the referee fancies 7.30 am call on Sunday morning.
Yay!

What a load of b****cks!
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
To those active across L3 & L4 referees, the FA have just given update guidance regarding COVID.

The main point is that post-match debriefs will still be done remotely :(

So looks like I am going to be doing County level, unless the referee fancies 7.30 am call on Sunday morning.

And me, I'm not going back until they lift this crazy rule.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Such nonsense. I have a game on Saturday afternoon (after work) and then a meal out. Then 2 games on Sunday followed by going out afterwards to meet a couple of mates. I would have the debrief on Monday evening at the earliest where I won't remember 95% of the game. Crazy
 

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

Regular Contributor
This is not a change, merely a reminder to observers of the Covid protocols which have been in place throughout, and recognising the increased transmission risk with winter approaching fast.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Joint travel still expected...
I haven't joint travelled once. Haven't been able to claim any petrol but it certainly not expected.
I've now had 2 in changing room post match debriefs though...
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
If you can't claim then it's expected, it's just not required.
For me it's a choice. I can claim to where I would have got a lift from.
It's hardly fair on the clubs to pay more, and where we travel from the amount is significant, my closest step 3/4 game is 102 mile round trip so there has to be a way of controlling that.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
This is not a change, merely a reminder to observers of the Covid protocols which have been in place throughout, and recognising the increased transmission risk with winter approaching fast.

But it is still ridiculous. I can't speak with the officials, even out in the open air to do a debrief, but I could go to the pub across the road and sit down at a table for four with them after leaving the ground.

Covid isn't going anywhere and will be around for ever, does that mean that debriefs after the game will never resume? For me that just doesn't work as I like to write the reports on Saturday night and Sunday morning, and the chances of having held the debrief before then are miniscule.

And just to make a point, there is no increased Covid transmission risk in Winter, the risk is that other seasonal illnesses such as flu add to it, especially as flu was all but eradicated since March 2020. But the risk of catching Covid through being in a changing room is no higher in December than it is in August.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
But it is still ridiculous. I can't speak with the officials, even out in the open air to do a debrief, but I could go to the pub across the road and sit down at a table for four with them after leaving the ground.

Covid isn't going anywhere and will be around for ever, does that mean that debriefs after the game will never resume? For me that just doesn't work as I like to write the reports on Saturday night and Sunday morning, and the chances of having held the debrief before then are miniscule.

And just to make a point, there is no increased Covid transmission risk in Winter, the risk is that other seasonal illnesses such as flu add to it, especially as flu was all but eradicated since March 2020. But the risk of catching Covid through being in a changing room is no higher in December than it is in August.
Whilst I don't know if covid is seasonal or not, and certainly don't think the spread is worsened by the weather, it will certainly be more prevalent through winter as people meet indoors instead of outside etc. Which as we saw last year saw cases rise out of control. This year is different with vaccination etc. But I think this will be the acid test for the vaccine.

As we move into the winter months outdoor debriefs are going to be less feasible. Of course there is the option to maybe do it under a stand or something like that.

Personally I am still keeping distance where possible, minimising social contact, solo travelling so I don't want an in changing room debrief (although I accept contrib it's the refs debrief and if he chooses to allow it then that's not in my control. I could decline I suppose but I'm doing these things to protect other people, I fancy my own chances if I get it)
Anyway, many of the observers I see, fall into the vulnerable category - so rightly so the FA Should be safeguarding them but maybe they need to look more at choice, but that has to be both the referee and the observers, and if either say no I want a virtual debrief the other just has to deal with it.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Whilst I don't know if covid is seasonal or not, and certainly don't think the spread is worsened by the weather, it will certainly be more prevalent through winter as people meet indoors instead of outside etc. Which as we saw last year saw cases rise out of control. This year is different with vaccination etc. But I think this will be the acid test for the vaccine.

As we move into the winter months outdoor debriefs are going to be less feasible. Of course there is the option to maybe do it under a stand or something like that.

Personally I am still keeping distance where possible, minimising social contact, solo travelling so I don't want an in changing room debrief (although I accept contrib it's the refs debrief and if he chooses to allow it then that's not in my control. I could decline I suppose but I'm doing these things to protect other people, I fancy my own chances if I get it)
Anyway, many of the observers I see, fall into the vulnerable category - so rightly so the FA Should be safeguarding them but maybe they need to look more at choice, but that has to be both the referee and the observers, and if either say no I want a virtual debrief the other just has to deal with it.

Personal choice is surely the way forward. Thats the way forward as we move out of the pandemic in day to day life. I read on social media yesterday that a league which is mainly using council facilities is going to WhatsApp message Secretaries on Saturday mornings with a decision on whether or not the games can go ahead as all council facilities in the area remain shut and clubs have said that they don't want to change outside in inclement weather.

If people don't want to change in changing rooms due to not wanting to be in enclosed spaces then they absolutely shouldn't. Either change in the car, outside or stay away until they're comfortable. But the council keeping facilities shut is ridiculous and so is calling games off because of weather when changing. Is it ideal, absolutely not. As a player would I want a game called off because the rain meant I'd get wet when changing, absolutely not.

There's too much football being cancelled at grass roots. If the pitch is in a safe condition then get on with the game.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
I have solution ......
Let's go back 25 years and do the report and no debrief. Send the report in the post......Referee doesn't know he has been assessed until the report arrives.

So much fun.

It works back then and produced some great referees - Poll, Riley, Durkin.....

🤣
 

Max2

Member
Level 3 Referee
I have solution ......
Let's go back 25 years and do the report and no debrief. Send the report in the post......Referee doesn't know he has been assessed until the report arrives.

So much fun.

It works back then and produced some great referees - Poll, Riley, Durkin.....

🤣
Once had a baffling one turn up on a Thursday which didn't seem quite right. Didn't recall a missed KMI mentioned, but was nodding along reading it until a line about a dog halting play. Turns out the assessor had watched the pitch next to mine instead. Great system. :D
 

Yampy

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Bananas with no justification as well

@Yampy how can I officially express my displeasure Mr Rep?!
Send me an email @es1 and I will follow it up for you.
Given that no one has expressed any opinion on the subject previously to me, it was difficult to debate anything but my own view and that of preserving the current status quo. As your rep, I will argue your viewpoint on your behalf.
Should any other L3 or L4 feel aggrieved, contact your rep and they should do likewise.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Whilst I don't know if covid is seasonal or not, and certainly don't think the spread is worsened by the weather, it will certainly be more prevalent through winter as people meet indoors instead of outside etc. Which as we saw last year saw cases rise out of control. This year is different with vaccination etc. But I think this will be the acid test for the vaccine.

As we move into the winter months outdoor debriefs are going to be less feasible. Of course there is the option to maybe do it under a stand or something like that.

Personally I am still keeping distance where possible, minimising social contact, solo travelling so I don't want an in changing room debrief (although I accept contrib it's the refs debrief and if he chooses to allow it then that's not in my control. I could decline I suppose but I'm doing these things to protect other people, I fancy my own chances if I get it)
Anyway, many of the observers I see, fall into the vulnerable category - so rightly so the FA Should be safeguarding them but maybe they need to look more at choice, but that has to be both the referee and the observers, and if either say no I want a virtual debrief the other just has to deal with it.

Generally if anyone in the changing room is going to be vulnerable it is most likely to be the observer. The match officials are in the changing room with each other anyway, and have potentially been in the car and bar / boardroom together as well. For me it should be the observer's choice unless any of the match officials raise an objection to a changing room debrief.

There is no evidence that Covid is seasonal, but you are of course correct that people spend more time indoors which increases the risk of it spreading. Equally though, they classify close contact as being close to someone for 15 minutes, and a debrief should never take that long.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
Send me an email @es1 and I will follow it up for you.
Given that no one has expressed any opinion on the subject previously to me, it was difficult to debate anything but my own view and that of preserving the current status quo. As your rep, I will argue your viewpoint on your behalf.
Should any other L3 or L4 feel aggrieved, contact your rep and they should do likewis
Hi @Yampy

Tag me as an observer in the York’s Pool to allow post match debriefs..
 
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