A&H

Sin bin and other

W

willt2004

Newref
Level 8 Referee
Hi all,

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things

1) you caution a lkaye for dissent. As they walk to the sin bin, they dissent again and you issue another caution. Are they treated as an you would a sub?

2) an opposition substitute runs on to the FOP and commits a DOGSO H for instance on the goal line. What would the restarts be?
Obviously RC for the offender and a PK?
 
The Referee Store
1 - you show 2 yellows and the player doesnt take any further part in the game and cannot be replaced

2 - not 100% on this but i think you're right
 
2. You are right 100% but only if it is between the posts which will make it a denying a goal (DOG and no SO). Outside the posts maybe, outside the PA, no.

1. Es1 is right
 
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one said:
2. You are right 100% but only if it is between the posts which will make it a denying a goal (DOG and no SO). Outside the posts maybe, outside the PA, no.
Click to expand...

But you also YC him for entering the FOP - so it becomes a dismissal by other means....
 
willt2004 said:
2) an opposition substitute runs on to the FOP and commits a DOGSO H for instance on the goal line. What would the restarts be?
Obviously RC for the offender and a PK?
Click to expand...

From Law 12

A player, sent-off player, substitute or substituted player who enters the field of play without the required referee's permission and interferes with play or an opponent and denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity is guilty of a sending-off offence
 
lincs22 said:
But you also YC him for entering the FOP - so it becomes a dismissal by other means....
Click to expand...
If not DOGSO (not between the posts), where is the first YC? And if outside PA where is the PK? So still not 100% correct.
 
Could you not call scenario 1 - 2 x sin bins - therefore he can't come back on but CAN be replaced by a sub (after 10 mins)?
 
According to the FA, if a player commits a yellow or red card offence while in the sin bin he can't take any further part in the game and can't be substituted. From their Q&A:

What happens if a player commits an offence whilst in the sin bin?
The player would receive either another yellow card or, if serious, a red card. The player will not be able to resume play and would not be permitted to be substituted.

Although he hasn't physically entered the sin bin yet this still counts as if he has.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Could you not call scenario 1 - 2 x sin bins - therefore he can't come back on but CAN be replaced by a sub (after 10 mins)?
Click to expand...
The law is not very clear, incomplete, uses poor wording and somewhat contradictory on this but I base my answer on two assertions and a 'modified' quote from LOTG (what the lotg meant to say).
  • Once you have stopped play for dissent, the dissenter is considered a "temporarily dismissed player"
  • Dissent is still considered a cautionable offence in a game with sin bin. It is the punishment that is different in different circumstances.
  • "A temporarily dismissed player who commits a cautionable (YC) or sending-off (RC) offence during their before temporary dismissal period will take no further part in the match and may not be replaced or substituted"
* there is no need to say during... as the player is only considered a temporarily dismissed player from the moment the game stops until s/he serves the time.

markref said:
Although he hasn't physically entered the sin bin yet this still counts as if he has.
Click to expand...
The law says "The temporary dismissal period begins when play restarts after the player has left the field of play" so in according to the exact wording of the law @PinnerPaul is right but the intent and spirit of it is not what the wording suggest in the case of two dissents in quick successions before the player leave the FOP.
 
markref said:
According to the FA, if a player commits a yellow or red card offence while in the sin bin he can't take any further part in the game and can't be substituted. From their Q&A:

What happens if a player commits an offence whilst in the sin bin?
The player would receive either another yellow card or, if serious, a red card. The player will not be able to resume play and would not be permitted to be substituted.

Although he hasn't physically entered the sin bin yet this still counts as if he has.
Click to expand...

Your last line is where I was coming from - he hasn't actually entered the 'sin bin' - where is the justification for saying that the process of leaving the field counts as being in the sin bin?
 
PinnerPaul said:
Your last line is where I was coming from - he hasn't actually entered the 'sin bin' - where is the justification for saying that the process of leaving the field counts as being in the sin bin?
Click to expand...

Apologies - posted that before reading One's reasonable justification!
 
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lincs22 said:
Not just because it is handball, the thread started as deliberate handball in the area, but not a DOGSO H.
Click to expand...

I'm going to nit pick here, but this is a referee board. A deliberate handball in the PA is not a cautionable offense. Potentially there could be a caution for SPAA arising from the handling, though I'm not sure there are a lot of cases that makes sense when the defender is giving up a PK on something that is not an obvious goal scoring opportunity. (Though I will confess that if the player coming illegally onto the field was a cynical act as opposed to a player who wrongly thought he was permitted to come onto the field, I may be more likely to see a debatable scenario as warranting the second caution.)
 
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