A&H

Simulation but not really simulation

Ciley Myrus

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
Touched on simulation on another post. Hope I can word this the way its thinking in my head. So...

probably more likely at grass roots, but, tame game, your in control, its all going fine

player heads towards goal, the, takes bad touch, and then does a terrible dive effort, nearly amusing, so ridiculous his own team dont even appeal, ball gets cleared and its so good humoured the centre half helps the striker up and even he is smiling

are you. Stopping game on the original dive
Stopping game and giving a yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for a public warning
Having a word in passing later, so you let the player know his actions never went unnoticed
Absolutely nothing?
 
The Referee Store
Kevin Friend's advice at an RA meeting I attended, was to steer clear of simulation at grass roots. In context, I knew where he was coming from... not wishing to invite aggravation and all that; but I'd always stop the game for cheating and cautioned the player (it's in my DNA!). I've done it a number of times and it hasn't caused me any issues. I love the look of horror from the defensive team as they think i've just dropped a bollock by awarding the PK!
 
Big Cat said:
Kevin Friend's advice at an RA meeting I attended, was to steer clear of simulation at grass roots. In context, I knew where he was coming from... not wishing to invite aggravation and all that; but I'd always stop the game for cheating and cautioned the player (it's in my DNA!). I've done it a number of times and it hasn't caused me any issues. I love the look of horror from the defensive team as they think i've just dropped a bollock by awarding the PK!
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i have seen me call goal kick from say edge of 18 at a pk claim and i understand how if even looks like you are pointing to the spot!
I make an effort now to get out the box, backwards, before doing so now

Well few can argue with Mr Friend but if am watching a grass roots game at 0+0 and in the last min the ref correctly deals with simulation, then the referee is getting due credit for carrying out his duties correctly, and not just ignoring something just cos....I would also wager a bet Mr Friend ( somehow) got where he is by at one stage of his career making that same call.
 
I can't ever remember a card for simulation, it is a skill that my bunches didn't attend classes for.
There was laughter when someone messed something up but not for simulation that I can ever remember....
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Touched on simulation on another post. Hope I can word this the way its thinking in my head. So...

probably more likely at grass roots, but, tame game, your in control, its all going fine

player heads towards goal, the, takes bad touch, and then does a terrible dive effort, nearly amusing, so ridiculous his own team dont even appeal, ball gets cleared and its so good humoured the centre half helps the striker up and even he is smiling

are you. Stopping game on the original dive
Stopping game and giving a yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for a public warning
Having a word in passing later, so you let the player know his actions never went unnoticed
Absolutely nothing?
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One important lesson I learnt early on in refereeing is "no surprises". In this instance, his team mates are taking the p***, his opponents are taking the p***, you might as well join in and also take the p***; especially noting the temperature of the game with your firm control in place. That being side, by all means, a passing word later on would be good practice.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Touched on simulation on another post. Hope I can word this the way its thinking in my head. So...

probably more likely at grass roots, but, tame game, your in control, its all going fine

player heads towards goal, the, takes bad touch, and then does a terrible dive effort, nearly amusing, so ridiculous his own team dont even appeal, ball gets cleared and its so good humoured the centre half helps the striker up and even he is smiling

are you. Stopping game on the original dive
Stopping game and giving a yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for yellow
Waiting till ball dead and going back for a public warning
Having a word in passing later, so you let the player know his actions never went unnoticed
Absolutely nothing?
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Option 4 for me, assuming of course that it's the first time the player has done it in the match.

Normally, an obvious dive (even at "Dog & Duck" level) attracts howls of protest and derision from the other team but in my experience this only happens if and when a player has already been "accused" of it by the opposition.

So yeah, at grass roots, first time offence - one time warning. :)
 
If everyone is laughing about it and no one is expecting a yellow card then join in and have a laugh. I've had this a few times and I've just laughed it off like everybody else. Nobody wants an officious ref at dog and duck if it's been a good tempered game (which it has if everyone is laughing at simulation). Pergectly fine to manage the situation with a laugh imo
 
Big Cat said:
Kevin Friend's advice at an RA meeting I attended, was to steer clear of simulation at grass roots. In context, I knew where he was coming from... not wishing to invite aggravation and all that; but I'd always stop the game for cheating and cautioned the player (it's in my DNA!). I've done it a number of times and it hasn't caused me any issues. I love the look of horror from the defensive team as they think i've just dropped a bollock by awarding the PK!
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With all due respect to Mr Friend, I think that's really quite naive. Most of us don't have the luxury of being able to turn up with a reputation or credibility in the bank. If 22 players, 10 subs, 2 managers and the bloke walking his dog 50m from the pitch all know it's a dive, there's no better way to throw away your credibility and make the following <90 minutes incredibly difficult than acting like nothing's happened. You don't need to stick your neck on the block for a marginal decision, but if it's obvious, don't play up to the "blind ref" stereotype.

Now what you do about it is entirely down to context and reaction. In the situation described, a quick word along the lines of "Oi, number 9, don't be a dickhead!" might even work if you do happen to know the teams well enough. But a dive's a dive, so if the reaction and match context demands it, the yellow card might be necessary - or anything in between. Just whatever you do, don't do nothing!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Keep em guessing! Win the war not every battle!
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Ah, that would be a surprise tho? Keep it simple, as someone else said, no surprises. I feel everyone expects you as referee to do something, whatever that something may be, Else you setting yourself up to be shot at by appearing to overlook indiscretions...
 
I watched the Motherwell 6-6 the other night, the ref that day let loads go, it wasn’t all about him, he just let the game flow.. what an equaliser though! You don’t stop them!
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Ah, that would be a surprise tho? Keep it simple, as someone else said, no surprises. I feel everyone expects you as referee to do something, whatever that something may be, Else you setting yourself up to be shot at by appearing to overlook indiscretions...
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I agree that you have to do something. Normally I advise the player how awful his dive was and tell him chuck in a scream and a couple of extra rolls next time, or something along them lines. Never had an issue with something like this and never will. As a player, I'd normally go on the reaction of the bloke who dived. If he gets up and laughs then we all tend to laugh. If hes demanding a penalty then it goes one of two ways.

1. The dive was so awful that we're all laughing at him and the embarrassment is enough! Ref can show a yellow or just have a laugh, it would be accepted by both teams either way.

2. The diver is genuinely looking for a pen and hes been clever enough to make it look like a foul. Defending team will be up in arms and the ref just needs to get in there and issue a yellow. No other option.
 
Ben448844 said:
I agree that you have to do something. Normally I advise the player how awful his dive was and tell him chuck in a scream and a couple of extra rolls next time, or something along them lines. Never had an issue with something like this and never will. As a player, I'd normally go on the reaction of the bloke who dived. If he gets up and laughs then we all tend to laugh. If hes demanding a penalty then it goes one of two ways.

1. The dive was so awful that we're all laughing at him and the embarrassment is enough! Ref can show a yellow or just have a laugh, it would be accepted by both teams either way.

2. The diver is genuinely looking for a pen and hes been clever enough to make it look like a foul. Defending team will be up in arms and the ref just needs to get in there and issue a yellow. No other option.
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totally, my post was not intended to include the guy thumping the ground and shouting PENALTY then chasing you round the pitch, thats a different situation can only have one outcome.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
totally, my post was not intended to include the guy thumping the ground and shouting PENALTY then chasing you round the pitch, thats a different situation can only have one outcome.
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Two outcomes. One from the referee and one from the defender when the refs back is turned :)
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Proactive....you deal with it, before the opponents do....
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As a former player, and I speak for many of my former team mates too......if someone has dived and is screaming for a pen then regardless of what the referee does, he's going to get done when the refs back is turned. Just the way it was and still is in some areas
 
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