A&H

Self Reflection

Degnann

Degnann

As incompetent as the last ref
Level 4 Referee
First game back tonight since Scotland lifted its restrictions today.

2006s 2x40 halfs. Purple vs Green

2 key incidents.
Green second bookable offence on 36 minutes. Clear as day yellow. Coaches, we will sub him. I say no and send him off.
lots of shouting and moaning that its a friendly and the first one isn’t even a yellow. We have discussed on here numerous times about cards in friendlies and such. For me cards should always be used.

was the first foul a harsh yellow? Maybe however player’s responsibility from then to know hes on a card.

second half.
Green Coach dismissal at 58.
team score few minutes later after losing ball
Moaning that I didn’t bring back an advantage.
explain to him why I didnt.
continues after whistle has gone for kick off.
Stop play, and have word with him to calm down and I dont want to come back over. Probably should have cautioned here.
However restart IDFK to purple on touchline closest to him.
Queue him going mad because of his team losing restart. Explain to him thats the restart for verbal offences as hes off the pitch. 97% sure that is correct.

Only after game I’m thinking to myself, not sure what Ive sent him off here for in law. However he was warned. Again maybe a caution a few minutes before would have been easier to send off. He walked regardless.

Just received text from purples to say, good game and one of the best refs they’ve had. Which I appreciate is easy to say when they won 4-1.

have i missed being called a donut? Not so sure
 
The Referee Store
Degnann said:
Explain to him thats the restart for verbal offences as hes off the pitch. 97% sure that is correct.
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct, although personally I would only stop play if I was going to show him a card, otherwise I'd wait until the next break in play to talk to him (like you say, I'd probably caution him instead of talking to him a second time)
 
What verbal offence has he committed? If you don't caution him then the restart should be a drop ball.
 
Alex Rush-Fear said:
Yes that is correct, although personally I would only stop play if I was going to show him a card, otherwise I'd wait until the next break in play to talk to him (like you say, I'd probably caution him instead of talking to him a second time)
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Yes. Should have cautioned him and moved away. Although the restart would have been the idfk so he was always going to walk.


bester said:
What verbal offence has he committed? If you don't caution him then the restart should be a drop ball.
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Well his offence could either be deemed minor low level disagreement or of course dissent. As it was verbal disagreement then its an IDFK
 
Degnann said:
First game back tonight since Scotland lifted its restrictions today.

2006s 2x40 halfs. Purple vs Green

2 key incidents.
Green second bookable offence on 36 minutes. Clear as day yellow. Coaches, we will sub him. I say no and send him off.
lots of shouting and moaning that its a friendly and the first one isn’t even a yellow. We have discussed on here numerous times about cards in friendlies and such. For me cards should always be used.

was the first foul a harsh yellow? Maybe however player’s responsibility from then to know hes on a card.

second half.
Green Coach dismissal at 58.
team score few minutes later after losing ball
Moaning that I didn’t bring back an advantage.
explain to him why I didnt.
continues after whistle has gone for kick off.
Stop play, and have word with him to calm down and I dont want to come back over. Probably should have cautioned here.
However restart IDFK to purple on touchline closest to him.
Queue him going mad because of his team losing restart. Explain to him thats the restart for verbal offences as hes off the pitch. 97% sure that is correct.

Only after game I’m thinking to myself, not sure what Ive sent him off here for in law. However he was warned. Again maybe a caution a few minutes before would have been easier to send off. He walked regardless.

Just received text from purples to say, good game and one of the best refs they’ve had. Which I appreciate is easy to say when they won 4-1.

have i missed being called a donut? Not so sure
Click to expand...
Confused about the idfk restart. Had the game kicked off? The whistle had gone but had it been played. If not the restart should have remained the same. Otherwise correct.

What I would say is if you aren't going to caution then wait until the next stoppage for the rebuke.

bester said:
What verbal offence has he committed? If you don't caution him then the restart should be a drop ball.
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You have probably found a hole in the law here. Law says verbal offences are idfk.
I think Degnann knows he should have cautioned but I can see how the laws allow for idfk with no caution.
I dont see how a drop ball is. Are you going to stop play and then restart with an uncontested ball to the 'offenders' team..
Of course I agree it should have Been a caution or no Stoppage but even without the mandatory caution a law 12 offence is committed so a free kick to the opposing team stands to reason
 
All verbal offences are penalised with an indirect free kick.
If, when the ball is in play:
• a player commits an offence against a match official or an opposing player,
substitute, substituted or sent-off player, or team official outside the field of
play or
• a substitute, substituted or sent-off player, or team official commits an
offence against, or interferes with, an opposing player or match official
outside the field of play,
play is restarted with a free kick on the boundary line nearest to where the
offence/interference occurred; for direct free kick offences, a penalty kick is
awarded if this is within the offender’s penalty area.
Click to expand...
Warning
The following offences should usually result in a warning; repeated or blatant
offences should result in a caution or sending-off:
• entering the field of play in a respectful/non-confrontational manner
• failing to cooperate with a match official e.g. ignoring an instruction/request
from an assistant referee or the fourth official
• minor/low-level disagreement (by word or action) with a decision
• occasionally leaving the confines of the technical area without committing
another offence
Click to expand...
 
Excellent research from Alex, however I think the issue with the conclusion you're pointing us towards is the word "minor".

Anything minor I will either let go, verbally warn him while the game goes on or just delay the restart for a few seconds to make clear I heard it and it's not acceptable.

If they've said something so bad (or so persistently) that I've felt I have to stop the game to deal with it then it's no longer low level disagreement, it's become (persistent) dissent and needs to result in a card. Which conveniently, also gets rid of this slight hole in the laws!
 
GraemeS said:
Excellent research from Alex, however I think the issue with the conclusion you're pointing us towards is the word "minor".

Anything minor I will either let go, verbally warn him while the game goes on or just delay the restart for a few seconds to make clear I heard it and it's not acceptable.

If they've said something so bad (or so persistently) that I've felt I have to stop the game to deal with it then it's no longer low level disagreement, it's become (persistent) dissent and needs to result in a card. Which conveniently, also gets rid of this slight hole in the laws!
Click to expand...
Yes, in reality that's how we would manage it but stopping play and awarding an idfk is not wrong in law.
 
Coaches

Minor/low level disagreement by word - IDFK
Minor/low level disagreement by action - Drop ball

What if a player committed the "offence"? It's not mentioned as one for players.
 
bester said:
Coaches

Minor/low level disagreement by word - IDFK
Minor/low level disagreement by action - Drop ball

What if a player committed the "offence"? It's not mentioned as one for players.
Click to expand...
Action would be idfk too.

minor/low-level disagreement (by word or action) with a decision

It is an offence so is punished by a free kick.

Players are also idfk. All verbal offences (Inc. Dissent by action) are punished by indirect free kick.
 
I've got myself into a pickle as I wasn't considering things that could be dealt with as warnings as offences per se.
For coaches the laws do seem to class them as such.
 
JamesL said:
Yes, in reality that's how we would manage it but stopping play and awarding an idfk is not wrong in law.
Click to expand...
Disagree.. the problem I see with Alex's logic is that it is mixing up the restart for offences by players with offences by team officials. Something that you'd stop play for to warn a player is not an offence (it would be for a team official). If a player has not commited an offence, a free kick can not be awarded.

There are a number of verbal offences against players for all of which a sanction is mandatory. If there is no sanction, there is no offence.
 
one said:
Disagree.. the problem I see with Alex's logic is that it is mixing up the restart for offences by players with offences by team officials. Something that you'd stop play for to warn a player is not an offence (it would be for a team official). If a player has not commited an offence, a free kick can not be awarded.

There are a number of verbal offences against players for all of which a sanction is mandatory. If there is no sanction, there is no offence.
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We are talking about offences by coaches. Not players. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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one said:
Yeap. Got it. Got confused with the fact that a coach was warned after being sent off. Still not sure I got this right.
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Play was stopped to warn the coach for low level/minor disagreement and an idfk was awarded. No sanction was administered is my understanding.

Coach was binned later in the game
 
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JamesL said:
Confused about the idfk restart. Had the game kicked off? The whistle had gone but had it been played. If not the restart should have remained the same. Otherwise correct.
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Play had kicked off mate.

just to clarify.
Play stopped. Coach warned, about to restart with idfk. He was binned at this point for further arguments. Hopefully that makes sense
 
Interesting that "minor/low-level disagreement (by word or action) with a decision" is considered an offence if committed by a team official but not if committed by a substitute.
 
one said:
I don't think this is by design. It's just typical IFAB not thinking about the consequences of the wordings they use.
Click to expand...
For these 'coach offences' in general on what basis should play, aside from advantage, be allowed to continue until the next stoppage?
 
bester said:
For these 'coach offences' in general on what basis should play, aside from advantage, be allowed to continue until the next stoppage?
Click to expand...
Great question. If say from a game management point of view, anything that requires a warning should be left to a stoppage. This would avoid further revelations (e.g. OP). This wouldn't be a hard and fast rule though.

Stop game for sanctioning if no advantage.

Happy to be convinced otherwise.
 
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