RefSix

Quick throw opinions

Hoosier Ref

Well-Known Member
#1
This is one if I had to do over again..... still tough call

1-0 game home team leading. This is a neutral ground game and I use home and away for identification. Lot of gamesmanship and bickering by away team. Throwing near MIDFIELD. AR2 trailing play by about 20 yards flags throw for away team as I am immediately and simultaneously signaling throw for home team (I could see but AR could not that the ball skipped off away team defender's thigh). Home team takes quick throw. One away player was running to try to take throw as well (no tussle for ball and note that I immediately signalled the other way). 4-5 Away team ayers decide to run to me to argue the throw rather than defend creating a quick promising attack that leads to a goal. Cue much more dissent from away team.

Here is the dilemma. Ultimately it is the CR's call. This is not the case of a switched call which should prompt a whistle and allowance for everyone to shift and get ready. I (CR) signalled immediately from 7-10 yards away the correct direction of the throw while AR (who is a referee) signalled from 10-15 yards away and behind the play the other direction. I'm torn on this one. In hindsight I could have denied the home team the quick throw and made it on the whistle. The defending team decided to run to me to protest rather than defend. I really think the away team did this to themselves BUT could easily have paused the game and made it on the whistle but I think both decisions could easily be right. Hard pressed to deny proper and fair possession, quick restart and subsequent goal to a team when the other team (who had been dissenting all game already) decided to stop defending to come argue while the game was going on. Tough on I shall second guess for a while
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#2
I think that because "the game" expects the AR to make the decision you should have slowed it here.
Tbh 4-5 players running at you to argue - was there not a case for dissent? Bare minimum stop and chat to the captain with the most serious offender.
I might be wrong but I feel a little as though you let it go in an attempt to teach a lesson.

I'd personally say hold up play when there has been a disagreement if its going to seriously disadvantage a team. I think you should have also given your AR courtesy of a little indication as to why you'd over ruled.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#3
Let me ask you a question (with a hidden answer). Do you want me to give you my opinion on what is the technically correct thing to do or what is the fairest thing to do?

Two weeks ago I had a similar scenario as AR. I was 15 yards away the ref 10. Play was near touch line with their back to ref but I had clear view. Defender tries to kick the ball out but it touches attacker ever so slightly before going out. Everyone thinks it's an attacker throw except for me and the two players. Attacker tries to beat the signal by taking a very quick throw hoping things will slide. Referee is about to signal for attackers. I am thinking I need to flag very quick to stop the attacker (and alert the ref) but get a menal blank for direction for half time blues. So as attacker (white) is about to take a throw I yell out red throw, they keep going and I yell out a few more times. The ref blows the whistle and brings the ball back. The attacker smiles at me and says you can't blame me for trying.
 
#4
When you have players from both teams trying to take the restart because match officials have signalled different directions I think that's time to slow it down and stop the confusion. If the other player just tried taking the throw because he thought it was his and both ref and AR opposed him, then it's his tough luck.

Technically you don't have to - and I can see why you might look at an overruled offside flag as precedent - but here, the officials having disagreement has clearly caused a problem. And I think being out of play makes it different to offside.

As a coaching point - how did it come to be that you had different signals? You said that you saw a slight touch the AR may not have - in that case, did you consider signalling even before the ball went out?

What are your prematch instructions on how you and the AR make sure that you're agreeing before a signal is even given?
 

Hoosier Ref

Well-Known Member
#5
This was a quick play right inside of midfield about 3 to 5 yards inside the attacking half. Ar trailing g significantly as play had moved forward in a counter. I was 8to10 yards from the play. All play running in my direction. Defender raises leg and ball slips off top of his thigh. Ar could not have seen it as defenders body would have blocked his view and it was slight but noticeable to anyone on my side within 10 yards of the play. As we were close to touchline ball quickly went out and restart was quick as player was right there. Away team was not close and there was no argument at touchline as it was so quick. It was consistent with my immediate signal. This was a fast sequence. After the quick throw I see the AR signal and indicate to him a touch off the thigh. This was a bang bang play out the back in for a rapid attack and was correct in restart. Away team had had several dissent issues throughout the game and elected to dissent rather tha defend. These guys are good at the gamesmanship side of things. Easily a ploy to save themselves from a hole they dug. Ar was quite a bit behind the play. I dont argue that I'm correct. I'm still torn on this one. As far as pre match. This is a very experienced referee that I'd worked with before. Soft signals and eye contact before signaling. In your quadrant, I'm going with you, in my quadrant mirror me unless certain I've missed something the give me a subtle sign that you are certain and yes regarding the dissent. Cards issued during the game for it. This instance as the rapid attack developed and a defender and the attacker ran down the left wing this was more of an attempt at dissent as we continued upfield
 
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one

RefChat Addict
#6
Right. I guess the question is, without the dissent and gamesmanship, in your judgement did the confusion between you and AR negatively impact the defenders' ability to defend. If the answer is no then I'd support your decision.

The difference between this and offside is that in this case the ball is out of play (and cant go in play unless you are happy with it) so you can legally slow down the restart. In offside stopping game for a wrong flag is a wrong decision.

Even in offside there is a case I'd stop for a technically wrong flag. Ball is put through along the touchline near AR. PIOP gives chase. Defenders 2 yards behind and another attacker onside 5 yards behind also give chase. Flag goes up. Everyone sees this. The PIOP stops but only because he sees the flag. So do defenders. The onside player keeps going. Now the wrong flag hasn't just impacted the defenders, it has also told the attacker you are offside and made him not commit what otherwise would have been a certain offence. I'd blow for this. Technically wrong but the fairest thing to do, esp at grassroots.
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#8
Think the practical answer is stop play and restart with the throw again.......hopefully before you allow it to get to the back of the net.......
 

socal lurker

Well-Known Member
#9
Guess I didnt post it earlier, this game had had 5 YC and a RC prior to this plus an additional RC 3 minutes later
Sometimes those are games that it helps to take a bit of the air out and slow things down. So for me, adding that context on the original scenario, I'd be more inclined to slow the TI and make sure there was not confusion.
 
#10
Depends a bit on the AR but if I see the AR’s flag start to go up the wrong way when I am tipping with the finger, walking and/or starting to signal myself... and I’m 100%...then I’ll try to the whistle as fast as possible.

Anything else is a world of pain. And follow it up with some kind if nod wink thumbs up to the AR so they know you still trust them.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#11
Depends a bit on the AR but if I see the AR’s flag start to go up the wrong way when I am tipping with the finger, walking and/or starting to signal myself... and I’m 100%...then I’ll try to the whistle as fast as possible.

Anything else is a world of pain. And follow it up with some kind if nod wink thumbs up to the AR so they know you still trust them.

Am in a (bad) habit of not looking at the AR in these ones and simply blasting the whistle and strong arm signal and making it clear, look guys, (including my AR), am calling this one.....
Sometimes there is no sentiment for being uncertain so, the ref stands up and earns his corn.
if get a chance running past, I will simply say/shout to AR "I had to call it" and on we go. If its folk I know (and amazingly there are a masochistic few who like to line for me), I might shout something like "my call, but I will give you the next one".......and it be treated in the manner it was meant...
 
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