A&H

Push in the back ref

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sh2002

sh2002

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Level 7 Referee
Hi guys, I’ve done about 12 games now well into my first season as a ref , I have got to grips with most aspects of reffing but on part of it which I can’t seem to fully grasp is players nudging each other in back , how much is too much force when pushing in the back ?
Any advice would be much appreciated
 
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sh2002 said:
Hi guys, I’ve done about 12 games now well into my first season as a ref , I have got to grips with most aspects of reffing but on part of it which I can’t seem to fully grasp is players nudging each other in back , how much is too much force when pushing in the back ?
Any advice would be much appreciated
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I must add the “push in the back ref “ incidents come from mostly throw in
 
Make sure you have an angle, rather than looking down barrell of a gun
There will be natural contact, but, a push is a push.
Be proactive, shout, hands down, dont push,
How about next game, give your shout early, and penalise asap?
Then continue until the message sinks in?
 
99% ignore them, they’ll get the message! Give one on a weak request and you’ve opened a wasp nest for every one after that!
 
There is merit to only giving the clearest blatent one, however you will soon be reminded by the other team of the five softer ones that you have already let go
Pushes in the back are not a huge concern game managment wise,
Ignoring the majority of them can escalate though and, the players dont know where you have drawn your line. So for a new ref, i would recommend drawing it early, for an experienced ref, indeed, few are needed to be given
Sometimes a good one in front of dug outs can send out a message, and can result in the coach telling Harry to keep his hands down,
 
Ciley Myrus said:
There is merit to only giving the clearest blatent one, however you will soon be reminded by the other team of the five softer ones that you have already let go
Pushes in the back are not a huge concern game managment wise,
Ignoring the majority of them can escalate though and, the players dont know where you have drawn your line. So for a new ref, i would recommend drawing it early, for an experienced ref, indeed, few are needed to be given
Sometimes a good one in front of dug outs can send out a message, and can result in the coach telling Harry to keep his hands down,
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I passed through Alloa today, no view of the Miley One, up in Inverness now, 460 miles, tea, beer and bed for me!

Agree on the blatant ones, they do grate a bit when it’s every contact!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I passed through Alloa today, no view of the Miley One, up in Inverness now, 460 miles, tea, beer and bed for me!

Agree on the blatant ones, they do grate a bit when it’s every contact!
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Just in from officiating so no, nowhere near Alloa today, and Inverness on a Tues night is grim at the best of times
But yes to the penalising, for experienced ref, the less you give, the more impact they have, as the players know straight away that they have gone too far
With a new ref, no harm in penalising softer ones frequently, if only to send out a message.
 
JH said:
Angle is CRUCIAL. So much easier to spot shoves and pushes from side on. Set your stall early.
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Its not just to detect pushes, looking straight on, you will never catch what the attacker is doing, holding, backing in etc....all you will catch is the bump from defender to attacker. Side on, wide, looking at an angle is the only place to be here.
 
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Clever attackers go down like a sack of spuds with a breath of wind defender behind them, great examples are Alan Shearer, our own Billy Sharp and lanky Peter Crouch didn’t need a second invitation to win a FK on the edge of the other weekend. Shearer was a master at this though, his goal tally shows you that from the resultant FKs
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Clever attackers go down like a sack of spuds with a breath of wind defender behind them, great examples are Alan Shearer, our own Billy Sharp and lanky Peter Crouch didn’t need a second invitation to win a FK on the edge of the other weekend. Shearer was a master at this though, his goal tally shows you that from the resultant FKs
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Most of them wil be given freekicks by refs who have abandoned basic diagonal because they are top flight now and stuff the basics.
They see the ball flying through air to striker and they see striker being bumped
What they cant see is, say Shearer, he has been the one to bounce himself off the defender, all you see as ref is Shearer rebounding, making it look like he has been pushed
With likes of Shearer, he knows he wont get them all but yes, he will get one and yes, good chance he will score from it.
Not quite cheating, certainly clever though.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
There is merit to only giving the clearest blatent one, however you will soon be reminded by the other team of the five softer ones that you have already let go
Pushes in the back are not a huge concern game managment wise,
Ignoring the majority of them can escalate though and, the players dont know where you have drawn your line. So for a new ref, i would recommend drawing it early, for an experienced ref, indeed, few are needed to be given
Sometimes a good one in front of dug outs can send out a message, and can result in the coach telling Harry to keep his hands down,
Click to expand...

Sorry i am struggling to understand your logic here, why does your level of experience determine how many push in the back shouts you give free kicks for? Why do players know where you as an experienced ref has drawn the line but not SH who has only done 12 games?


It is probably the most common shout in football and agree with Sheff that 99% i am saying no to, within 10 minutes the shouts will reduce because the players will stop trying to pull the wool over my eyes with pathetic shouts.
 
Most shouts of "in the back Ref" tend to come from the benches who are side-on to play. They see a hand come up and automatically claim a push took place. Like many, I tend to just simply ignore it. It's no different to everyone shouting "our ball Ref" whenever it goes out for a throw. If I see a blatant push or a shove that (IMO) has had an impact on the other player or his ability to play/control the ball then I'll blow.
Oh and stop dissing my mate Shearer. The bloke is a God and I'd use his :poop: for toothpaste. :cool:

Here endeth the lesson. ;)
 
Cheshire Ref said:
Sorry i am struggling to understand your logic here, why does your level of experience determine how many push in the back shouts you give free kicks for? Why do players know where you as an experienced ref has drawn the line but not SH who has only done 12 games?


It is probably the most common shout in football and agree with Sheff that 99% i am saying no to, within 10 minutes the shouts will reduce because the players will stop trying to pull the wool over my eyes with pathetic shouts.
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My logic is, an experienced referee can afford to pick and choose certain maybe fouls, as they have, or should have good management skills to be able to reign the game back in if it looks like its boiling over, whereas with a newer ref, prevention is the best cure, if you keep things as simple as you can then hopefully the temp does not rise. Knowing what is, and what is not a foul is not the same as refereeing. Its a tactic employed by top referees, subconsciously in cases, best example would be a Celtic Rangers, the referee will go out and give everything early on to establish total control, whereas in a lesser fixture you might allow just a bit more.
 
To the OP - I’m a couple of years down the track from you, and agree - one of the biggest pains in the neck for me as a ref.

Fully agree with getting side on: top advice.

What I then look for is extension of the arms.

Imagine a goal kick, striker on half way line, with defender behind him, both waiting for the ball. Defender puts his hands lightly (arms bent at elbow) onto back of striker - this is a natural reaction, makes the striker aware that he (defender) is there, stops him backing into the defender. No foul.

It becomes a foul if the defender straightens/extends his arms then this becomes a push and hence a free kick.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
My logic is, an experienced referee can afford to pick and choose certain maybe fouls, as they have, or should have good management skills to be able to reign the game back in if it looks like its boiling over, whereas with a newer ref, prevention is the best cure, if you keep things as simple as you can then hopefully the temp does not rise. Knowing what is, and what is not a foul is not the same as refereeing. Its a tactic employed by top referees, subconsciously in cases, best example would be a Celtic Rangers, the referee will go out and give everything early on to establish total control, whereas in a lesser fixture you might allow just a bit more.
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I see where your coming from but i wouldn't give this advice for this particular offence/scenario. As someone mentioned earlier on you give one you have to give them all and you will be blowing your whistle every 30 seconds.
 
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Cheshire Ref said:
I see where your coming from but i wouldn't give this advice for this particular offence/scenario. As someone mentioned earlier on you give one you have to give them all and you will be blowing your whistle every 30 seconds.
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yes that' extreme but my point, for me still stands, a newer referee might be advised to keep control without complicating things, and if that means awarding softer fouls in general, then I cant see the harm in that....until they mature and are confident dealing with consequences, the old story about reffing being like riding a new horse, until you have it under control, you keep it under a tight reign, as you just cant predict how it will react, and indeed if you will be able to handle it if it oversteps the mark. As you slowly progress you can the begin to feel more confident in the calls that you dont make, as opposed to the ones that you do.
Nobody wants a stop start game. A newer ref who penalizes a bit more early on might reap the benefits of the players screwing the nut and not committing fouls as they soon realise every slight touch is going to be a foul.
 
Cheshire Ref said:
I see where your coming from but i wouldn't give this advice for this particular offence/scenario. As someone mentioned earlier on you give one you have to give them all and you will be blowing your whistle every 30 seconds.
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That's not your problem, that's on the players. If the players keep pushing, the whistle keeps going. Or, as is much more often the case, the players push, the whistle goes, the players stop pushing because their manager gives them an earful for giving away a stupid foul.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
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yes that' extreme but my point, for me still stands, a newer referee might be advised to keep control without complicating things, and if that means awarding softer fouls in general, then I cant see the harm in that....until they mature and are confident dealing with consequences, the old story about reffing being like riding a new horse, until you have it under control, you keep it under a tight reign, as you just cant predict how it will react, and indeed if you will be able to handle it if it oversteps the mark. As you slowly progress you can the begin to feel more confident in the calls that you dont make, as opposed to the ones that you do.
Nobody wants a stop start game. A newer ref who penalizes a bit more early on might reap the benefits of the players screwing the nut and not committing fouls as they soon realise every slight touch is going to be a foul.
Click to expand...
But if the only difference is that it might get more heated, why wouldn't you keep tight control in the early stages? Just because you're more experienced doesn't mean you should invite more problems?
 
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