PSG v Man City

[bloovee]

My impression was that VAR has had far fewer gaffes of late, but try this.

Game already lost by City, but PSG's fourth goal disallowed for offside, then - after a very long wait - allowed as VAR judged it was deliberately played by a defender.

So it was - but off the shoulder and head of an opponent, so offside surely.

 

[bester]

This isn't an uncommon problem with VAR they get so fixated on looking at one issue they forget to look at the bigger picture. Even more confusing is that they have semi-automated offside which would've recognised it deflected off the PSG player.

Wasn't a deliberate play either for me.

 

[one]

So it was - but off the shoulder and head of an opponent, so offside surely.

I don't think there was contact by defender. There is another angle that suggests there was no contact. Neither are best angles. I would think VAR has all angles and probably have enough evidence to say there was no contact.

 

[ladbroke8745]

I don't think there was contact by defender. There is another angle that suggests there was no contact. Neither are best angles. I would think VAR has all angles and probably have enough evidence to say there was no contact.

Its definitely played from defender for the 4th goal...
But it'll be forensic detail to see if it came off forward shoulder after...

 

[RefereeX]

Given that 'deliberate play' is surely subjective, should Szymon not have been sent to the monitor? (regardless of the other issues)

 

[ASM]

I don’t see any contact on the attacker after the play by Gvardiol so it comes down to deliberate play or not.

For me, yes this is a deliberate play and therefore the goal was correctly awarded.

 

[RefereeX]

Given that 'deliberate play' is surely subjective, should Szymon not have been sent to the monitor? (regardless of the other issues)

Just thinking about this again, and having actually watched it, my guess is that Szymon said that it was a deliberate play by the defender but that it came off the attacker and hence was offside, so VAR was just checking for evidence of whether it did come off the attacker or not, hence not subjective and VAR can just award the goal rather than sending Szymon for review...

 

[Kevin0954]

Don't see many players making a deliberate play off their shoulder. I think this should have been referred to R for subjective on field review.

 

[ARF]

The first angle at 1:43 shows no contact with the attacker. Can't see any reason to not deem this a deliberate play by the defender, so goal is the correct decision.

If it's just a factual decision of whether or not the ball touches the attacker then I don't see the need to bring the referee over for an OFR. This is where it would be nice to get that little extra info when the decision is being made.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Don't see many players making a deliberate play off their shoulder. I think this should have been referred to R for subjective on field review.

The question is whether the defender played it deliberately - he did.
It then appears to have touched the attacker next to the defender, which would make the scorer offside.

 

[The Gump]

I'm so blooming confused about what constitutes a deliberate play when looking at that in comparison to comments on a previous thread, which included IFAB videos...

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/was-this-one-offside.24739/

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I'm so blooming confused about what constitutes a deliberate play when looking at that in comparison to comments on a previous thread, which included IFAB videos...

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/was-this-one-offside.24739/

In this latest case the defender ran to challenge for the ball and jumped at the attacker and the ball. That's a deliberate action IMHO.

 

[Russell Jones]

Deliberate vs Deflection remains a nightmarish minefield. For what it’s worth, both myself and my best mate (a Championship AR) would see this as a Deflection … this is based on the ball coming in the air and the defender being under challenge from an attacker. The chance of a controlled play in this situation is significantly reduced and in reality the ball goes in an uncontrolled fashion in a different direction to that intended by the defender (and not because he ‘made a mess of it’). But certainly very subjective

 

[RefereeX]

Deliberate vs Deflection remains a nightmarish minefield. For what it’s worth, both myself and my best mate (a Championship AR) would see this as a Deflection … this is based on the ball coming in the air and the defender being under challenge from an attacker. The chance of a controlled play in this situation is significantly reduced and in reality the ball goes in an uncontrolled fashion in a different direction to that intended by the defender (and not because he ‘made a mess of it’). But certainly very subjective

@Big Cat is a Championship AR?

 

[Runner Ref]

Deliberate vs Deflection remains a nightmarish minefield. For what it’s worth, both myself and my best mate (a Championship AR) would see this as a Deflection … this is based on the ball coming in the air and the defender being under challenge from an attacker. The chance of a controlled play in this situation is significantly reduced and in reality the ball goes in an uncontrolled fashion in a different direction to that intended by the defender (and not because he ‘made a mess of it’). But certainly very subjective

Completely agree. From all of recent guidance that I've seen, this ticks the boxes for a deflection for me.

 

[Archer]

@Big Cat is a Championship AR?

First two letters are correct at least

 

[Big Cat]

@Big Cat is a Championship AR?

Best AR you've ever had..........
FACT

 

[DJIC]

I'm a bit confused (apologies), is deliberate play relevant in this play?

Defenders plays the ball, if we are ok it brushed the attacker's shoulder on its way to the offside striker, then its offside.

Any touch (even if not deliberate by an attacking player) can create an offside offence, so I'm with you Bloovee it is offside.

Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is penalised on becoming involved in active play.

*The first point of contact of the ‘play’ or ‘touch’ of the ball should be used.

 

[RefereeX]

I'm a bit confused (apologies), is deliberate play relevant in this play?

Defenders plays the ball, if we are ok it brushed the attacker's shoulder on its way to the offside striker, then its offside.

Any touch (even if not deliberate by an attacking player) can create an offside offence, so I'm with you Bloovee it is offside.

Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is penalised on becoming involved in active play.

*The first point of contact of the ‘play’ or ‘touch’ of the ball should be used.

It's not absolutely clear that it did brush off the attacker, that's the reason for the deliberate play debate. Some think it did, and some don't.

 

[Runner Ref]

I'm a bit confused (apologies), is deliberate play relevant in this play?

Defenders plays the ball, if we are ok it brushed the attacker's shoulder on its way to the offside striker, then its offside.

Any touch (even if not deliberate by an attacking player) can create an offside offence, so I'm with you Bloovee it is offside.

Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is penalised on becoming involved in active play.

*The first point of contact of the ‘play’ or ‘touch’ of the ball should be used.

Correct, deliberate play doesn’t matter when it comes to the attacker playing the ball. But think most, myself included, don’t think the attacker played the ball. It appears to have been the defender.